Strictly Stereo
Trade: Strictly Stereo
How come you've given up on Kii?
Suffice to say that the UK distributor Kii appointed in January has rubbed me up the wrong way. It has nothing to do with the product or Kii itself.
How come you've given up on Kii?
S-Man, Your in room measurements I assume were taken from the listening position. first, use 1/12 smoothing.
Your sub should be brought at least 5db down imo. Your trying to compensate the 40hz dip with the sub but clearly you should find another placement for your subs . As you can see, you have a serious dip at from 35hz to 50hz. since you cross the sub around 80hz, due to how long those frequencies wavelenght are, as long as your sub are within 3.5 feet from the mains, the subs are <<time aligned>> with the mains. the rule is 1/4 wavelenght. 80hz wavelenght is 14 feet. 14/4 is 3.5 feet.
My experience with subs have been constant, they measure easily flat, at the LP, up to 60hz/80hz if you place them on the front wall, as close as you can from the front wall. this placement helps to remove dips at the LP because it bring the cancellation from the front wall up in frequencies. you should try it at least.
secondly, you have a serious dip at 100hz which is probably easy to deal with by moving your mains around. the 100hz is a cancellation from the front wall or maybe your listening position in relation to the back wall. try either to move your listening position, the 38% rules helps. do not place your LP at the 50% of the room length, nor the 25%!
good luck
get yourself standsSome very good points. Unfortunately I don't have any stands for the LS50.
In the past, when I did have stands but no microphone, I tried the boundary loading thing and didn't like the audible result.
I suspect my LP is around 38% from the back wall/window.
BTW, Lee from Stricktly Stereo considered my room to be a "good sounding room". That was using the current speaker positions for both Kii3 and CAOW1/ZRB.
He commented that he could "hear the room" but it was not intrusive. I totally agree that the 30Hz peak is audible. Lee was sat off axis, where the 30Hz lump is more audible than the hot spot.
LS50/ZRB at my friend's house with a much larger room sounds better. Actually I put it in the "best systems ever" thread. That's why I had to have a pair of LS50s.
Mine ought to sound even better because I don't have to look at orange drive units
get yourself stands
BTW, Lee from Stricktly Stereo considered my room to be a "good sounding room". That was using the current speaker positions for both Kii3 and CAOW1/ZRB.
He commented that he could "hear the room" but it was not intrusive. I totally agree that the 30Hz peak is audible. Lee was sat off axis, where the 30Hz lump is more audible than the hot spot.
I think there is a lot more to it that just FR. Compare my CAOW1 (DIY) speakers to LS50s (red), nearfield:
IIRC this is with ports blocked and active crossover in place. Also, until I figure out gating, there's loads of room mixed in, so please take with a pinch of salt:
From the above I would assume the LS50s sound a bit brighter due to the increase in the presence region. But of course this is only the on-axis response.
In reality the pivotal difference is that the LS50 sound cleaner and faster... brass instruments sound brassy instead of slightly fuzzy. Maybe this is attributable to less box colouration (the LS50s are remarkably dead on the knuckle rap test) or maybe it's lower distortion (I've always wondered if the OW1 can really handle a 2nd order acoustic crossover at 2.5KHz) or both? Whatever it is, I doubt my rudimentary measurements are going to show it.
Maybe. Perhaps you could explain the correct way to measure speakers In room, so I can correct my friend?
Most of what you describe is high frequency related, partly due to the LS50 tweeter being 2 or 3dB too hot, which is why you see the shelving in the FR above 1.5kHz:
I think its a little hot as its a coaxial driver and drops a fair bit off axis. They certainly don’t sound over-bright with a typical toe-in so they are crossing a fair bit behind the listening seat IME. No one listens to anything on axis at a metre!
how can you find the best speaker placement without stands?Spend money to make the measurements better and the sound (most likely) worse
ok. Then you need to look at your Listening position (where your mic is) which is directly in a room mode.I urge anyone to try it out and "drag" the sub(s) around and it soon becomes apparent that the room peaks are troughs are only modestly affected by the sub position(s).
problem with trying to EQ room problems, especially dips like yours that are 15db deep which is clearly a room mode,its well known that room eq can help to reduce peaks, not really helpfull to improve dips.So far I haven't found any reason to change my opinion that putting a "flat" signal into a real room sounds better than eq'ing the signal to counteract the room effects.