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Soundstage. Is it only a constuction?

herb said:
Soundstage seems to me to only apply to rock/jazz/pop studio recordings manipulated by engineers in their studios with added reverb.
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The idea behind stereo recording/reproduction is to create a sense that music is happening in space. The word 'stereo' is shorthand for 'stereophonic', which derives from greek words meaning sound (phonic) and three-dimensional (stereo). (Note: the word stereo doesn't mean two channel. It's just that two-channel recording/reproduction is the commonest way to attempt to create a stereo - i.e. dimensional - sound image.)

Whether the illusion of dimensional space happens on playback depends heavily on the recording and the listening equipment. Arguably the best (or only) way to record two-channel stereo is to use a Blumlein pair of microphones - i.e a near-coincident 90 degree crossed pair. The recording should then be reproduced by two speakers positioned and angled to create the same layout.

In practice very few recordings are made like this. Most classicial recordings use multi-miked techniques, so their soundstage, in so far as it exists, is indeed something of a confection. For studio recorded multitrack rock/pop, soundstage is always a confection. Nonetheless many such recordings still create a more-or-less effective illusion of music in space.

Some equipment just doesn't seem to create much of a soundstage, though. Personally, I've always found Naim amplifiers don't really do stereo depth. That's not so much a criticism as an observation. I suspect that many of those who like Naim gear just don't value stereo depth highly - which is fine. I also suspect that two channel stereo just doesn't work for some people - i.e. some people just don't hear stereo depth, no matter how the recording was made, or the brand of equipment it's played on. My wife is like this. Maybe the OP is like this too. (In fact, maybe the OP uses Naim gear?)
 
Dozey said:
Yes it does. Mono gives you the reverb.
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No it doesn’t at all. You have the information but it’s not 3D. It is centered and narrow between the speakers. Not realistic.
But the music can still be enjoyed of course! Many great interpretations are mono, unfortunately… :(
 
irb said:
Some equipment just doesn't seem to create much of a soundstage, though. Personally, I've always found Naim amplifiers don't really do stereo depth. That's not so much a criticism as an observation. I suspect that many of those who like Naim gear just don't value stereo depth highly - which is fine. I also suspect that two channel stereo just doesn't work for some people - i.e. some people just don't hear stereo depth, no matter how the recording was made, or the brand of equipment it's played on. My wife is like this. Maybe the OP is like this too. (In fact, maybe the OP uses Naim gear?)
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Ah, found out.:D

Yes I use a Naim CDX2 which throws instruments and voices at the listener. I have heard a lot of CD players which do depth I think, but lose some of the emotion. The CDX2 images are located very precisely left to right though.
 
irb said:
The idea behind stereo recording/reproduction is to create a sense that music is happening in space. The word 'stereo' is shorthand for 'stereophonic', which derives from greek words meaning sound (phonic) and three-dimensional (stereo). (Note: the word stereo doesn't mean two channel. It's just that two-channel recording/reproduction is the commonest way to attempt to create a stereo - i.e. dimensional - sound image.)

Whether the illusion of dimensional space happens on playback depends heavily on the recording and the listening equipment. Arguably the best (or only) way to record two-channel stereo is to use a Blumlein pair of microphones - i.e a near-coincident 90 degree crossed pair. The recording should then be reproduced by two speakers positioned and angled to create the same layout.

In practice very few recordings are made like this. Most classicial recordings use multi-miked techniques, so their soundstage, in so far as it exists, is indeed something of a confection. For studio recorded multitrack rock/pop, soundstage is always a confection. Nonetheless many such recordings still create a more-or-less effective illusion of music in space.

Some equipment just doesn't seem to create much of a soundstage, though. Personally, I've always found Naim amplifiers don't really do stereo depth. That's not so much a criticism as an observation. I suspect that many of those who like Naim gear just don't value stereo depth highly - which is fine. I also suspect that two channel stereo just doesn't work for some people - i.e. some people just don't hear stereo depth, no matter how the recording was made, or the brand of equipment it's played on. My wife is like this. Maybe the OP is like this too. (In fact, maybe the OP uses Naim gear?)
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Stereo is really 1D.
The sense of depth comes from the relative level of the sources and is complemented by ambience cues (real or fabricated) so it wouldn't be correct to call it a dimension, it is only an effect which creates an illusion.

So all we have is this:

lJpYGdi.png
 
I’ve always found soundstage depth and ‘height’ etc to be pretty irrelevant to the enjoyment of music - maybe they’re more important when discussing the accuracy of reproduction as a highly accurate recording will be able to capture micro sounds that give an idea of relative positioning with a live recording, as well as actual musical details. I notice these things of course, but they don’t enhance musical quality as such, they’re more incidental, so I don’t think about them too much.
 
Unimportant perhaps, but so immersive!

So then, why do I get the illusion of the picture at left with my simple stereo, that is depth.

Not at all what the picture at right shows, where everything would be so flat as to being boring.

The sounds can even come from the left and the right of the physical objects that are the speakers.
 
Nagraboy said:
I’ve always found soundstage depth and ‘height’ etc to be pretty irrelevant to the enjoyment of music - maybe they’re more important when discussing the accuracy of reproduction? I notice these things of course, but they don’t enhance musical quality as such, they’re more incidental, so I don’t think about them too much.
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There's no such thing as soundstage height. You'd need upper and lower speakers to position an image above or below the horizon (or line which links your two speakers).
 
tuga said:
There's no such thing as soundstage height. You'd need upper and lower speakers to position an image above or below the horizon (or line which links your two speakers).
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I know, that’s why I put it in inverted commas. I just find it amusing that some reviewers and forum members mention it from time to time. The other funny one is sounds coming from beyond the outside edge of a speaker. Must be weird phase effects or imagination.
 
chartz said:
So then, why do I get the illusion of the picture at left with my simple stereo, that is depth.

Not at all what the picture at right shows, where everything would be so flat as to being boring.

The sounds can even come from the left and the right of the speakers themselves.
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Like I said, your mind is tricked into believing that there's depth by the relative level of the phantom sources and complemented by ambience cues. And your expectations (e.g kick drum on the floor, standing vocalist above the speakers).
 
tuga said:
Like I said, your mind is tricked into believing that there's depth by the relative level of the phantom sources and complemented by ambience cues. And your expectations (e.g kick drum on the floor, standing vocalist above the speakers).
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Yep, our brain is always trying to interpret the sound from the hi-fi compared with the usual things we hear all around us. Our senses make up a lot of stuff to fill in the information gaps in order to present us with something understandable.
 
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