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SNP - what are Scots thoughts?

JimmyB said:
From not being part of either faction, protestant or catholic, I think you'd find stories on both sides of the divide, signs or no signs, a lot hinges on a name. Luckily I am maybe too young to have seen signs such as those but growing up I got sick of seeing 'F*ck the IRA' and on the next wall 'F*ck the Pope'.
Neither side can take the moral high ground as far as I can see.
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Both sides seem to aspire to and very often achieve the moral low ground quite successfully. Thankfully it seems to be largely confined to the Glasgow/ central belt area with tiny, mostly football oriented pockets all around the country. It has improved over time but there is no room for complacency.
It all looks very stupid for modern day Scots to be arguing about a Dutch royal fighting in Ireland to prevent a deposed king reclaim the British throne, both sides with their version of a religion that very few give any credence to nowadays.
But tradition/heritage...

(I do however acknowledge the civil rights issues that the catholic population in Ulster experience/d.)
 
JimmyB said:
From not being part of either faction, protestant or catholic, I think you'd find stories on both sides of the divide, signs or no signs, a lot hinges on a name. Luckily I am maybe too young to have seen signs such as those but growing up I got sick of seeing 'F*ck the IRA' and on the next wall 'F*ck the Pope'.
Neither side can take the moral high ground these days as far as I can see.
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There is less blatant discrimination (although one of my neighbours is evidence of the opposite), but there is no equivalence. I suggest you read some history on the subject.

"Anti-Irish racism is as old as the 12th century: it is not the result of IRA terrorism, says a study by Dr Mary Hickman, director of the Irish Studies Centre at the University of North London"

'Catholics are the biggest target of hate crime in Scotland', Sunday Times 18.3.2018,"

"A Labour MSP, Elaine Smith, the party's inequality spokesperson, has now asked for more protection for the Catholic minority in Scotland in order to combat the apparent rise in hate crime."
 
I'm really not interested in the history of this, there's no denial there at all of what happened, however I'm not responsible for the past and I have no wish for it to blight where I live to such a toxic extent. What I'm talking about is the current state and both sides getting together and sorting it out rather than sniping at each other constantly. Part of the Christian ethos is forgiveness so I'm pretty sure that since both sides use religion for a basis for their hatred, they can also use it as a basis for giving it a rest.
In this day and age, there's no reason for it and yes, it is a hate crime, whichever way it is pointed.
 
Like the rest of the British Isles, Scotland has moved on from where it was up till the 70s. We have laws to prevent discrimination but the biggest contribution has come through social mobility and integration. Though if you’re still worried about discrimination between two slightly different sects of Christianity, try walking around with brown skin in Britain.
 
JimmyB said:
I'm really not interested in the history of this, there's no denial there at all of what happened, however I'm not responsible for the past and I have no wish for it to blight where I live to such a toxic extent. What I'm talking about is the current state and both sides getting together and sorting it out rather than sniping at each other constantly. Part of the Christian ethos is forgiveness so I'm pretty sure that since both sides use religion for a basis for their hatred, they can also use it as a basis for giving it a rest.
In this day and age, there's no reason for it and yes, it is a hate crime, whichever way it is pointed.
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And who is the main target for hate crimes in Scotland? Hint: see above. Then tell the Orange Order* in the name of Christian forgiveness to stop their triumphalist marching all over central Scotland. And let's see if the next Irish Unity march will be as 'peacefully' allowed to walk as the last one. Yes you are right there is no need for it, absolutely none at all, but where it exists I assure you it is mainly one-way traffic directed as usual towards a minority group.

* 200 in Glasgow
 
gassor said:
And who is the main target for hate crimes in Scotland? Hint: see above. Then tell the Orange Order* in the name of Christian forgiveness to stop their triumphalist marching all over central Scotland. And let's see if the next Irish Unity march will be as 'peacefully' allowed to walk as the last one. Yes you are right there is no need for it, absolutely none at all, but where it exists I assure you it is mainly one-way traffic directed as usual towards a minority group.

* 200 in Glasgow
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Gassor why would you want to go to Govan? Ok maybe to get your appendix out but I see any other need.
 
TheDecameron said:
Like the rest of the British Isles, Scotland has moved on from where it was up till the 70s. We have laws to prevent discrimination but the biggest contribution has come through social mobility and integration. Though if you’re still worried about discrimination between two slightly different sects of Christianity, try walking around with brown skin in Britain.
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Yet it seems to score highly in several studies trying to determine country is the most racist in Europe.
 
TheDecameron said:
Gassor why would you want to go to Govan? Ok maybe to get your appendix out but I see any other need.
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My going to Govan is not the point is it? When people have police permission to march in favour of a political cause we call it freedom of speech and many odious groups and others do it without being violently attacked eg the Orange Order when they shut down town and city centres. But when it is a group that has an Irish dimension they are targetted by thugs with Loyalist connections. The irony that they have their own marches 200 times a year seems lost on them.

And in that great refuse of Scottish middle-class manhood, the golf club, see how many committee members have a Catholic background. In fact, a friend lives near one club (Ranfurly) where the entire club committee was sacked for singing sectarian songs which were blasted out as they had microphones inadvertently left switched on.
 
gassor said:
My going to Govan is not the point is it? When people have police permission to march in favour of a political cause we call it freedom of speech and many odious groups and others do it without being violently attacked eg the Orange Order when they shut down town and city centres. But when it is a group that has an Irish dimension they are targetted by thugs with Loyalist connections. The irony that they have their own marches 200 times a year seems lost on them.

And in that great refuse of Scottish middle-class manhood, the golf club, see how many committee members have a Catholic background. In fact, a friend lives near one club (Ranfurly) where the entire club committee was sacked for singing sectarian songs which were blasted out as they had microphones inadvertently left switched on.
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I wouldnt be seen dead in a golf club, even if they were offering discount wakes.
 
Do you think Jim Davidson is on the brink of a come back? BTW you want to visit China...to see what it’s like to be on the receiving end.
 
Gassor, I don't think we're in any sort of disagreement in that all that you point out is clearly wrong, in many cases criminal and decidedly toxic. My only point is that there are culprits on both sides of the divide and until both are dealt with, we won't see the end of all this needless rancor.
I think in general my point on this thread is that I don't want to be party to a nationalism that is based on the demonizing of others, no matter nationality, heritage or skin colour.
If we are to be a separate nation then it should be based on positivity, openness and a clear vision of what we want to be as a nation. Part of what I was meaning was we do need to find a way to sort out internal strife out before we can become such a forward looking society.
 
gassor said:
My going to Govan is not the point is it? When people have police permission to march in favour of a political cause we call it freedom of speech and many odious groups and others do it without being violently attacked eg the Orange Order when they shut down town and city centres. But when it is a group that has an Irish dimension they are targetted by thugs with Loyalist connections. The irony that they have their own marches 200 times a year seems lost on them.

And in that great refuse of Scottish middle-class manhood, the golf club, see how many committee members have a Catholic background. In fact, a friend lives near one club (Ranfurly) where the entire club committee was sacked for singing sectarian songs which were blasted out as they had microphones inadvertently left switched on.
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gassor, you’re spoiling it!

I’m glad all this is coming up because I think a lot of the people e.g. writing fan fiction about Ruth Davidson and talking about moving to Scotland to get away from all the little Englanders have never encountered a Rangers fan and genuinely think Scotland is basically just a more ginger Sweden.

Good luck everyone explaining to the Billy Boys why your flag is a symbol of positivity and openness, while his stands for backwards-looking xenophobia.
 
Lol.

Religion in Scotland is not really any bigger than England, is it? I don't know any religious Scottish people. Don't think I ever did know any. I had thought it was just a luddite footbal thing.
 
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We used to live opposite the Wee Frees.
No one would do anything in the village on Sunday, not even hang out the washing, such was the thrall they commanded.
I was carrying my canoe from the house over the road to the loch on sunday and got a bollocking for not respecting the lords day.
That was in the 70s. Was back there in the summer, and times have changed and their church is now air b and b.
 
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