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Smetana, Ma Vlast. 1939 Live, Czech Phil, V. Talich.

George J

Herefordshire member

I find that Youtube is a marvellous place to discover legendary musical performances, and so it has proven again with this.

As a result I now have the official Supraphon CD issue, which is better than the quality on Youtube, and is also a complete transfer of the whole concert.

A moment in history is captured here. Never again would Talich be allowed to perform this complete piece live [under the protectorate of Moravia/Bohemia], though he did make a studio recording of the music on Electrola shortly afterwards without any cut.

The concert was recorded from the relayed broadcast in Oslo by the NRK, who relayed the broadcast concert in Norway alongside radio stations in Italy, France and other major European senders.

Please do not expect anything like a modern quality of sonics, or even something as good as the best commercial recordings of the time. The performance surely overcomes the limitations that exist. I am grateful to have this recordings, and I hope people will give a chance!

With best wishes from George

PS. I am thinking of Ma Vlast, rather than the concert of a week later of the second set of Slavonic Dances by Dvorak [also contained in the CD issue], which seems to me at a less high a level of interest.
 
Thanks for the link George, it reminded me of why my favourite performance of the seven I have is the 1954 Talich recording despite the fact that it is also less than perfect from a sound point of view.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000OQDRS2/?tag=pinkfishmedia-21

According to the sleeve notes Talich was able to conduct the piece, though banned in Czechlovakia, with the CPO on the tour of Germany he made under duress during the war - after the war the communist regime would not permit him to conduct the CPO in public performance.
 
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Dear Barry,

I am guessing that if he performed the music [even under duress] in Nazi Germany with the Czech Phil, this would explain the later accusations of "collaboration." I did not know this, so I have learned something. Thanks for teaching me something new. I never understood why Talich would be seen as a Nazi collaborator.

Talich had some big enemies in the post 1945 era for certain. This aspect seems tragic to me.

I have three recordings of this music. Talich as you have, Ancerl [also on Supraphon] and Kubelik [& Boston Symphony Orchestra on DG].

I have a reasonable number of V Talich recordings. Dvorak Symphnies 6, 7 and 8 HMV recordings made in London in the 1930s, the New World recorded on Supraphon 78s in Prague after 1945, but not the famous LP recording he did later. The Suk and Dvorak Serenades for Strings, plus, as mentioned, Ma Vlast, now twice.

With best wishes from George
 
Yes, significant people often have powerful enemies, I think this sort of thing was quite common after the war, the opportunity to settle old scores, so to speak.

Apart from the Talich I have Ancerl, Mackerras and Kubelik with the CPO, all very good, Kubelik with the VPO and the Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra - both less good and the odd one, Sargent with the RPO.

All these recordings except the Sargent have strong Czech connections and take the music very seriously as a piece of national music, Sargent has no such preconception and takes it on it`s own merits, if you know many other recordings it`s an interesting contrast.
 
Sargent is one of those rather underrated musicians. On his day he was rather a great conductor in my view, as well as being a superb conductor with concerto soloists, such as Schnabel, and Oistrach for example.

I once heard a tape of a radio broadcast of Elgar's Second Symphony from him that I thought was the best I'd ever heard, and even after more than twenty years I have not forgotten it. I suppose the recording by now would be fifty or sixty odd years old.

I bet it will never surface in a commercial release.

George
 
Dear Barry,

I am guessing that there is a fair chance! I bought the last copy a minute ago and will report back when it arrives.

There, be proud of yourself! I just spent money on another recording of Elgar II on your comment!

In any case, I have currently only one other in my collection. Elgar's own 1927 recording. I find this symphony rather elusive, and have gradually fallen out with all the first recommendations over the years, including Boult's searing Wartime account.

We shall see if this lives alongside Elgar's own reading! I find Elgar's so convincing that I cannot give up hope of another as fine [or better] one day.

With best wishes from George

PS: I am thinking it is more and more likely to be the very one. The reason is that the tape belonged to a friend associated with the Elgar Foundation and the Birthplace Museum. I said that the tape should be sent to the BBC or National Sound Archive as it might be unique. This was done after a copy was made to cassette. So it might not only be the same performance, but exactly the same tape recording I heard all those years ago. It would have been an off-air recording of a VHF broadcast.
 
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I hope it is the right recording, I shall play my copy possibly later tonight and have a good listen - I haven`t played it since the magazine came back in 2007 - so many other recordings to listen to.....

I`m thinking that as it was a BBC live broadcast the magazine recording would have used the BBC tape which they would have made and kept.

I used to know Wulstan Atkins, Elgar`s godson who was deeply involved with the Elgar Foundation and Society - trouble was I had no idea of his connection with Elgar at the time - he was just a friend of the boss who needed his tape machine installed.
 
Not sure how people can cope with such ancient recordings, I struggle with anything in mono sound even if its free from noise and has the full frequency range.
 
I find that if the performance is good it is quite easy to listen through the technical shortcomings - one of my favourite recordings of the Dream of Gerontius is the 1924 Batten recording - though abreviated it just sounds right.
 
Dear Barry,

Elgar himself was a great enthusiast for that Batten recording!
 
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The last Tuesday [sometime in the middle of the night], I was awoken by the Grieg Holberg Suite in a live concert recording in Stavanger with the Norwegian Chamber Orchestra. I was so staggered by it I woke up listened alert and went back to sleep after then. I mentioned this to a friend who is computer literate. He found it on the BBC stream and downloaded it for me. Sent it by email, and now I have it. The forth recording I have of this orchestra. The first is the BIS CD from 1979, then live at the Edinburgh Festival in 1985 [taped at the time], then the newer CD recording with Iona Brown! The new live one is the best. I often think concerts are better than official recordings, and I think that is how I explain that I can listen to an old recording in sometimes less than first quality sound without noticing the technical recorded quality. Mono or stereo makes no difference so long as the stereo is not exaggerated.

I simply use the replay as a sort of suggestion engine and imagine it as a natural real sound! Helps having played in orchestras though, perhaps, and attending far more concerts than I ever played in also.

I never expect replay to be quite real sounding, so I am very forgiving of many aspects provided the music making is grand!

With best wishes from George
 
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I simply use the replay as a sort of suggestion engine and imagine it as a natural real sound!

Wish that worked for me! I don't expect hifi at home to sound anything like the real thing in the concert hall, but I do enjoy the sense of space that a good stereo recording can provide. And I often find it much preferable to sitting next to fidgeting asthmatics at a concert!
 
Dear Barry,

The Sargent recording of Elgar II came with the post and I have just finished listening. I remembered it quite well, but not quite right!

The Coda of the Finale, which left an immense impression with its wistful lingering, is exactly what I remember. But on the whole the first movement falls into an episodic affair characterised by not quite convincing tempo changes. The slow movement does not manage to catch the mood of memorial, which I think is behind it all through. And the Scherzo is well played. But it is always worth the the trouble to find a performance from people who have the qualifications to perform the music in potentially an authentic way. I suppose nowadays I am not so enthusiastic about most of Elgar's music as I was those years ago when I was given the chance to listen to that tape.

But the Ma Vlast has grown the more in my estimation over two subsequent listenings in the quiet of the evening.

With best wishes from George
 
I`m sorry the disc didn`t quite reach your expectations George, I have listened to my copy a couple of times over the last few days, as well as two Boult recordings, 1957 and 1976. They are all excellent performances but I find I slightly prefer the 1956 Boult, it seems more together than either his later Stereo recording or the Sargent. Just my opinion of course.
 
Boult, !957 - on Pye or Nixa? We had that in the school library, and I listened to it several times. We also had Boult's Wartime 78 set, which must have been something of an extravagance at the time!

Plus Elgar's old 1927 78s. In those days I much preferred the First Symphony. In the end I was given the 78 sets [in their brown HMV albums with lovely cover notes and sleeves] of the two symphonies and Violin Concerto with the boy Menuhin years later, which was kind, but I guess I was the only one in the school who had played them for many years!

Halcyon days. I never mind find an unknown recording, even if it does not prove worthy of many listens. I have time for any performance on records at least once. You never know what you might find in the groove!

With best wishes from George
 


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