Sideways Uni-Pivot Arm, SUPATRAC Blackbird, formerly "Ekos Killer (Price?)"

[david ellwood]

So Laughingboy, being completely honest, what would you score the Blackbirds aesthetic 0-10?

Am I alone in thinking that if Linn or Naim were to release a tonearm looking like this they’d be accused of releasing a very rough prototype?

As proof of concept it’s apparently a huge success , but imho it could use a sprinkling of glitter.

 

[sonddek]

So Laughingboy, being completely honest, what would you score the Blackbirds aesthetic 0-10?

Am I alone in thinking that if Linn or Naim were to release a tonearm looking like this they’d be accused of releasing a very rough prototype?

As proof of concept it’s apparently a huge success , but imho it could use a sprinkling of glitter.

I agree that if you buy audio products only to look at, and for their badges to communicate your status, the Blackbird may not be your first choice. I quite like how it looks, but I can see that it will not be everybody's cup of tea, and I can not claim that the finish is as good as an Ekos SE, for example.

But let's face it, audio equipment in general is a bit of an eyesore. Even my Klimax case crossovers - the most expensively-presented used goods I've ever bought - are just a pair of grey slabs with a slightly cheap-looking blue light. I hide them. After the masturbation is over and you've got used to your carefully chosen junk, all that really matters is whether you are itching to find half an hour to put another side on. For me that feeling has been more persistent over the last two years than the previous 40, so I don't think many Blackbird owners are going to be sitting there staring at their appendages in silence and questioning their wisdom. The beauty is in the music, and the single-minded purpose of bringing it to life.

 

[laughingboy]

So Laughingboy, being completely honest, what would you score the Blackbirds aesthetic 0-10?

Am I alone in thinking that if Linn or Naim were to release a tonearm looking like this they’d be accused of releasing a very rough prototype?

As proof of concept it’s apparently a huge success , but imho it could use a sprinkling of glitter.

I'd give it a 6/10. Good, but clearly not a Dieter Rams design. The square tube aesthetic is unusual, but I find it fine. If you compare it to a Technics tonearm, for instance, it dispenses with the fussy curved arm tube, the gantry-like bearing surround and the blocky anti skate. The thrust box, though unusual, is no uglier than the Technics counterweight. There's no ugly head shell, or head shell attachment point. Sure, there are things to improve, but for an early production model of a novel design from a one-man operation, the aesthetics are pretty good, I'd say.

 

[messengerman]

I like it. If function is half as good as users say it is then that form follows in it's wake is the right choice, an earned choice and a cool choice too. I might even prefer a less polished version but then I'm a bit contrary.

Too much contemporary stuff over reaches on looks for no particular reason other than the maker is scared not to. Like the judges on Britain's Got Talent, best kept in a cupboard.

 

[sonddek]

I might even prefer a less polished version...

I can certainly manage that!

In fact, since finish has turned out to be the most time-consuming and frustrating part of the manufacturing process I could probably give you a discount! ;-)

 

[david ellwood]

but for an early production model of a novel design from a one-man operation, the aesthetics are pretty good, I'd say.

Id totally agree!

 

[tiggers]

I am sure the creator is quite capable of taking his to tonearm to an industrial design house and having them make all sorts of suggestions that will increase the aesthetic appeal although probably not the performance. The price will then likely double and no one will want to pay the extra. As a one time student of industrial design I think it looks purposeful, post modern and unfussy as it is now, it’s also quite imposing in a very good way… compared to some of the nonsense from some so called hifi companies it’s a breath of fresh air. All in my opinion of course.

 

[sonddek]

I'm certainly open to making it look better, but as you say, I'm not prepared to sacrifice performance, maintainability, cost, ease of use, compatibility, longevity or any of the other important aspects of the designed functions of a working machine for the sake of it looking a bit better to some people who have expectations based on past experience and previous designs. When I look at it I see purpose, and purpose is handsome enough!

 

[tiggers]

I'm certainly open to making it look better, but as you say, I'm not prepared to sacrifice performance, maintainability, cost, ease of use, compatibility, longevity or any of the other important aspects of the designed functions of a working machine for the sake of it looking a bit better to some people who have expectations based on past experience and previous designs. When I look at it I see purpose, and purpose is handsome enough!

Couldn't agree more. As said I think it looks spot on. As you know will be putting one on my Gyrorbe when it comes out of hibernation at the end of my renovation.

 

[Miss Ariel]

I think it looks really,really good.Especially the triangular counterweight area.The headshell reminds of Kuzma arms.
It's aesthetic is to my eyes reminds me of an American airforce spyplane,very stealth like.
It's great to see something unique and must be very satisfying for you refining it more and more.

 

[MUTTY1]

Remember the price too. Even to a tight wad like me it looks good value. It looked really good with that very simple deck(visually) from a New Zealand member. Some others might not gel as well.

 

[sonddek]

It's great to see something unique and must be very satisfying for you refining it more and more.

Cheers, Miss Ariel, much appreciated, and yes, it is really satisfying to refine it. I listen to vinyl for my own pleasure every day, like most people on this thread, and hearing great performance from my various classic decks and usually very modest cartridges is definitely very satisfying. I'm grateful to all critics for their views and ideas which have enabled me to improve the design over the last two years. No design should rest on its laurels - all designs can be improved one way or another. I hope the Blackbird is close enough to a broad solution that refinements can be retrofitted for a long time to come. Currently I'm working on updates so that all early arms are brought up to the latest spec, but in fact the updates are fairly marginal. I think the design is fairly mature already, and I hope that today's Blackbirds will go on working well long enough to see us out.

 

[sonddek]

BTW, on the subject of aesthetics, every time I see a beautifully machined headshell bolted or glued into a nicely finished arm, I don't think 'that looks nice', I think 'I wonder what the acoustic transfer function of the junction between those two parts looks like'. I will never know, probably, but my own aesthetic judgement of any arm is definitely influenced by some of the engineering difficulties which arise from decisions which involve compromises about acoustic performance. I wish everybody could have the chance to judge the Blackbird by its sound first. I think that would render much of the discussion about aesthetics redundant.

 

[matfff]

You posted the same thing back in January #466, why do you have a bug up your ass about this project, sounds like you aren’t even a trade member yourself? At least he’s been true to his word and delivered an end product on here, unlike certain DAC and Amp projects.

Personally I’ve found this thread extremely interesting and would not have seen it if it was over in the Trade sections, personally I have no issue with it staying exactly where it is and as TonyL has contributed to it and it’s still here presumably it’s not an issue for him and if it becomes one he’ll shift or lock it. For the record I am a Trade Member.

Agree 100%.

 

[yespsb]

Really can’t understand why this isn’t in the trade subforum? OP is a trade member and whole thread is now a thinly disguised advert. I have zero problems with that if it’s in the right place, but it isn’t. Are other Trade members cool with that?

I like many others on here don't live in rigid world. I understand your point of view but here's my take on it. The majority of forum user are happy with it where it is. It started out as DIY project that required feedback and exchanges with other forums users. It then moved in to the position of a embryonic start up, still relying on lots of feedback.

As it became obvious this was different and had commercial potential Richard was happy to share his IP gained through a huge amount of effort with others and even went as far as helping others build their own versions and that to my way of thinking makes this the right place for its progress to be tracked.

Yes Richard sells them, but his approach is a long way from the traditional commercial approach and that in my view is to be commended

 

[sonddek]

Richard - I'm guessing this post referenced the visit down to my place?

I'd just like to thank you once again for the time you spent this weekend updating the arm and squeezing the last ounce of performance out of my turntable. I learnt a lot during the session. I spent some time yesterday working through my old records and the deck really is "on song". My only temptation now is perhaps an XV-1t ? ;-)

Background for those interested.

When my Rega Isis valve arrived a decade ago - my then LP12 (Lingo 1 / Ekos) was packed up and archived - the Isis was that good. Recently I decided to get back into vinyl - my preference being to stay with the LP12 and to use where possible local / small company products. Hence my new LP12 (if you can call it that) slowly emerged: Stack Audio Soprano set, Karousel, Lingo VI, SUPATRAC arm, Yanis Tome cable (silver cord plus), RSL Phone stage and RFC Venus phono cable. And a blue belt.

I did not have the time to go through an incremental update process (day job too demanding) - so the system was eventually assembled in one go. So unpicking what the various elements bring to the party - which would have been interesting - was not possible.

But I'm truly delighted with the end result and the tables have been decisively been turned on the Isis!

Richard - once again Thank You! Feel free to attach a photo I sent you.

Regards

Richard

I hope it's now ok to say thank you Richard - I really enjoyed my visit for the conversation, the music, the beer and not least the delicious vegan chilli!

 

[MVV]

Normally I'm a bit irritated by 'trade' threads that are thinly disguised adverts. This is different; an enthusiast's story of designing and making an arm.
Obviously in future that may change but for now congratulations Sonddek.

 

[pickwickpapers]

So Laughingboy, being completely honest, what would you score the Blackbirds aesthetic 0-10?
... imho it could use a sprinkling of glitter.

interesting - simply on aesthetic grounds I think it's one of the best looking arms I've seen, particularly in situ.

that is, however, without the dangly, cage-like thingies mid-arm, important as they are for performance I don't doubt.

 

[torstoi]

10/10 to me.
Someone mentioned Dieter Rams and coincidentally my Blackbird is surrounded by 6 Dieter Rams objects.
And in my view it's right up there.
Taking in account it doesn't come from a designer in the first place that's really remarkable.
There's golden cuts in every dimension and every cut segment and it doesn't end there..

Very strong personality visually & to my taste is asking for an equally strong partner
for optical balance if that's your thing..
The optimum to me probably a black WT and that's to me where even the philosophy
would become somewhat level in terms of 'perfection by intelligent simplicity'.

I regret a bit I wrote somewhere the idea of the Supatrac on my LP12 'gives me a headache',
as my vision of an LP12 how I would like it is always based on the classic afromosia fluted model.
And there..only speaking for myself..I'd prefer to see a more classic looking arm.

I do like the look with the black models of LP12s posted above and there in my opinion it fits very well !

...and I had no visually inducted m*sturb*tion-phase by the way after installing the arm..

I just have to live with what surrounds me & as I have a choice of deciding what that is,
I choose things or combinations that don't cause synaptic hickups during a random snapshot of the room
while in half-standby couch mode..

I'm generally prepared to make a small sacrifice in absolute performance to get a pleasant
or better said harmonic visual result,
but if one chooses to combine the best present available deck
with the best arm to have the best possible sound quality result, that's absolutely fine.
To me there's no rules how anyone 'has' to do things to do it 'right'..

Cheers !

Edit..the compliance adjusters or tree-frog sunbath platforms don't disturb me at all btw,
they are not an integral design part of the arm to me but just an add-on to make some cartridges work better.
And with the 'take it or leave it' option already integrated in the design, mind..

 

[laughingboy]

Two suggestions.
1. How about an end cap for the tonearm, to be inserted after the cartridge is fitted? Something like this.

2. I'm not a fan of the look of the underslung inertia adjusters. Would it be possible to make a simple weight that clamps under the tonearm? You could attach it by stretching an o-ring (from a hook on one side of the weight) over the top of the tonearm to a hook on the other side. A similar principle to the way this bike light attaches: