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Sideways Uni-Pivot Arm, SUPATRAC Blackbird, formerly "Ekos Killer (Price?)"

Discussion in 'audio' started by sonddek, Sep 20, 2020.

  1. sonddek

    sonddek Trade: SUPATRAC

    How much would people be prepared to pay for an arm which outperforms Ekos SE and Well Tempered Ltd?

    Is there a general perception that expensive tonearms are near optimum?
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2022
  2. Radiance

    Radiance pfm Member

    There are much better but pricier arms available than the mentioned ones.
  3. Vinny

    Vinny pfm Member

    The number of people who have used an Ekos, and a Well Tempered, and been able to compare to even just one AN Other top-flight tonearm, is going to be a pretty small sample group.
  4. david ellwood

    david ellwood Kirabosi Kognoscente

    Lots of people raved about the PU7 being ‘better than an Ekos for less money’

    It’s not.
    Wilson, halvis and yuckyamson like this.
  5. Vinny

    Vinny pfm Member

    Clearly significant numbers of people would disagree, otherwise this fact(oid) would not be so commonly quoted.
  6. david ellwood

    david ellwood Kirabosi Kognoscente

    Well if the arm were equally well finished and produced by a company with reliable long term support, I’d happily pay a similar sum as the Ekos or even more if it were a significant improvement.
    Rico and GWM like this.
  7. Vinny

    Vinny pfm Member

    I have no doubt. No slight intended.

    I was just making an unbiased observation as I have used nothing mentioned thus far. I was also highlighting the fact that it is all opinion and in same cases, based on not much fact/listening.
  8. david ellwood

    david ellwood Kirabosi Kognoscente

    I think there’s likely always some room for development and the best can always be improved.

    OP what is this mystery arm?
  9. Rockmeister

    Rockmeister pfm Member

    DAF trucks are reliable with good strong engines and superb mechanical backup, but as a driving experience? Na. Merc or Volvo please.
    denni55 likes this.
  10. Darth Vader

    Darth Vader From the Dark Side

  11. Vinny

    Vinny pfm Member

  12. dave charlton

    dave charlton pfm Member

    IIRC, an RB1000 was once considered tops for an LP12.
  13. Darth Vader

    Darth Vader From the Dark Side

    mikegreenwood and MUTTY1 like this.
  14. linnfomaniac83

    linnfomaniac83 I bet you can’t wheelie a unicycle!

    To be fair, I’ve had every version of the Ekos with the exception of the latest version of the Ekos SE, I rate them extremely highly, but you stand a much higher chance of getting any Audio Origami arm serviced by Audio Origami than getting an Ekos or Ekos 2 serviced by Linn... by all accounts, Audio Origami are the go to guys for repairs and servicing on old Linn arms.
  15. Amber Audio

    Amber Audio This is the Day

    I’m very happy with my PU7. No complaints with fit n finish and support appears to be stellar. I had a SME V which is quite some piece of tech engineering but I didn’t love it enough, the PU7 brought a grin when it hit the groove so it stayed and the SME V went.
  16. Arkless Electronics

    Arkless Electronics Trade: Amp design and repairs.


    Oops jut read title again and it was Killer Price... must get some new glasses
    1964meb, sean99, Dirkster and 14 others like this.
  17. sonddek

    sonddek Trade: SUPATRAC

    Thanks for your input chaps. All noted.

    I have compared this arm against an Ekos II. In my opinion it knocks it into a cocked hat. The difference is energy, scale, soundstage, control of excess during difficult peaks, for example in opera crescendos, separation of instruments, timing and the overall impression of real performers doing something worthwhile. I would like to try it against the arms which I suspect it is gunning for, namely Graham, Kuzma 4point, and SAT. I would be interested in meeting people who use high end arms to make careful comparisons.

    Some of you may remember that I found a couple of Garrard 301s and built solid plinths for them. The problem of providing them with arms commensurate with their true potential festered for many years, but lockdown brought the opportunity to solve this problem from first principles. More will come of this but I'm weighing up how to proceed with this project.

    I will say that I'm hearing a standard of vinyl reproduction which I have never experienced before. Right now I'm listening to an old AT95 on the mystery arm and Garrard 301 and it is... ...better than satisfactory.

    I have reached the conclusion that arm designs are flawed, even the 4point, and that no arm design takes seriously the problem of oscillating stylus drag in the time axis.
    Luca likes this.
  18. sonddek

    sonddek Trade: SUPATRAC

    Which do you rate?
  19. yuckyamson

    yuckyamson pfm Member

    Sorry....what is this magical arm?
  20. JemHayward

    JemHayward pfm Member

    Pricing audio equipment is more of a marketing art than a science and probably doesn't relate to performance at all. I was involved in developing a small speaker in the late '80s but although the performance was amazing we couldn't get production costs to our target, and we'd have had to retail the speaker at around £650. We decided that no-one would pay that for a small stand mount / bookshelf speaker no matter how good it was. Six months later Acoustic Energy released the AE1 at £700, and we all know what happened...
    FireMoon and Luca like this.

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