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Should the rest of the world ween itself off Chinese products

Discussion in 'off topic' started by RoA, Aug 6, 2022.

  1. RoA

    RoA pfm Member

    ... just as we should remove our need for Russian energy?

    We all rely so much on others for all kind of things.

    Whilst I don't hold any whole nation responsible for the actions of their governments we do of course fuel military and economic power by importing from them/selling to them.

    Is that even feasible in today's world?
  2. tones

    tones Tones deaf

    The title should perhaps be rather "Could the rest of the world wean itself off Chinese products?" They do seem to be ubiquitous, indeed, rather hard to avoid. The mistaken assumption made about both China and Russia was that the implementation of a capitalist economy would see an inevitable transition to democracy. One guy even wrote a book about "the end of history". The Russians only export raw materials and the occasional weaponry, but China has played it much more cleverly and thoroughly embedded itself in capitalist systems, such that removal of Chinese input would be a major upheaval$. Chinese custom too - I think China is VW's biggest market.

    We are faced with the basic problem that every country making everything for themselves, a version of North Korean juche, is possible, but enormously expensive - and, as we have found out with respect to food in the current Ukranian crisis, impossible. And don't forget that China is responsible for about 95% of rare earth production. So, in the short term at least, the answer to your final question is no. But we could do better.

    I find it hard to believe that the Chinese Communist system will last forever, but it seems to be doing rather well at the moment, so there seems to be no choice but to live with it.
    Vinny likes this.
  3. Minio

    Minio Yeah no so

    As I am reading this there is a big colourful advert along the bottom of the page.
    There seems to be an infinite supply of ridiculously cheap Chinese guitars available.
    My experience is they are very good quality in sound, playability and finish. I have a Chinese SG and love it.

    I don't need any more guitars so, yes, we should wean ourselves off Chinese products because I'm alright jack
  4. gintonic

    gintonic 50 shades of grey pussy cats

    what do you mean by "products"? Do you mean the raw materials (copper, cobalt) mined by Chinese companies in Africa?
  5. Mike Reed

    Mike Reed pfm Member

    Far too fond of my Chinese curry, I'm afraid. Can't see the necessity to 'ween ourselves off' Chinese goods. Far better simply not to be dependent upon them, as has been the case. Similarly, parts of Europe and Russian energy, which, with hindsight, was a silly mistake albeit a commercially viable one.
    ks.234 likes this.
  6. PsB

    PsB Citizen of Nowhere™

    I believe the RoW should think very carefully about sending more advanced technology to China. There are some areas where companies should be willing to walk away from the Chinese market rather than set themselves up to being systematically copied/exploited. I remember reading about a Swiss specialty chemicals firm that does just that: once informed that the only way they would be allowed to participate in the Chinese market was if they would open a factory in China, they just stopped selling there. X years later the Swiss company is still thriving and leading in that particular technology.

    The RoW should start developing alternative sourcing strategies (a sort of plan B) to partially offset Chinese imports, just as the Chinese are developing their domestic consumer markets, because the Chinese will one day want to use their monopolies on certain products to advance their geopolitical agenda (Make China the Greatest Again) the way Russia is using gas and other commodities.

    On the other hand, mutual dependency is not such a bad thing: as long as the Chinese depend on the USA and Europe for their export markets, they are less likely to do something really dangerous in the China Sea. And vice versa, of course (which is why Pelosi's trip to Taiwan was such a bizarre initiative). The Chinese need to make a living, as we all do. Removing that incentive to cooperate with OECD countries does not seem the most clever strategy for world peace.
    sean99 and Snufkin like this.
  7. Bart

    Bart pfm Member

    Should’ve listened to Bob
    foxwelljsly likes this.
  8. davidsrsb

    davidsrsb pfm Member

    Way too late for that, China is at the front of the race with many technologies now. You can blame UK and US companies only doing something hard when their governments pay them to do it for that. The Chinese robot landers on the far side of the Moon tell us that they are not just dumb copying
  9. Rodrat

    Rodrat pfm Member

    The Chinese government is beginning to sound more and more like a tin pot dictator. Making daft threats which makes them also sound like a stroppy teenager. I can only assume nobody within the government is willing to point this out.
    tiggers likes this.
  10. PsB

    PsB Citizen of Nowhere™

    There is obviously a lot of good technology in China, and the number of engineers they train every year is astounding. But sending a lander to the far side of the moon is not exactly cutting edge: NASA did similar (although not exactly the same) things decades ago. Technology moves rapidly and there are plenty of areas where Chinese firms are still lagging.
  11. kensalriser

    kensalriser pfm Member

    Yes. China ia very powerful ogre created by the wealthy west, because everything in the west, political and economic, is guided by short termism. In the long run China is a far greater threat to the world than Russia, unless you feel that a governmental system of extreme authoritarian centralised one party state isn't a threat, of course.
    darrenyeats likes this.
  12. Bob McC

    Bob McC Living the life of Riley

    They also have the greatest weapon of all.
    They are prepared to wait.
  13. zygote23

    zygote23 pfm Member

    I'm quite content out here at present. Quality of life is great. You can literally buy anything from Taobao (Amazon on steroids). Transport is incredible with the Metro costing pennies and a 2hr taxi ride around £20 max. I've never seen so many EV's. Food is so cheap it's hardly worth cooking and the temperature has been in the high 30's now for weeks. The Expats are mostly insufferable dicks (where I work). The locals however are comedy gold.....and not backward in coming forward. Loving it.
    As for the politics I try not to mention the three T's. Most of the locals I know are not very forgiving of their government but I point them at the UK's clown and the barrel of shit that is the USA and they agree things could be worse out here.
    Down side....Mobile phone zombies...every single person here just wanders around glued to their phone. They walk into me and themselves so much I have started standing still and yelling 'OI' which makes them very nervy.

    I'm assuming when the real shite hits the real fan I'll be shipped back home!
    Rob998, narabdela, Mike Reed and 2 others like this.
  14. gintonic

    gintonic 50 shades of grey pussy cats

    when I was in HKG for three months, my apartment had hardly any kitchen (microwave, kettle etc) no cooker....eating out was so cheap....

    indeed my experience of these in many places concurs
  15. foxwelljsly

    foxwelljsly Me too, I ate one sour too.

    Re the OP, as a species, we probably need to permanently ween ourselves off all the gewgaws China manufactures or the planet will catch fire.
  16. Mike Reed

    Mike Reed pfm Member

    That's funny; I seem to see that here (Norwich) myself so frequently nowadays. Younger people, of course; rarely senile citizens.
    zygote23 and narabdela like this.
  17. RoA

    RoA pfm Member

  18. kensalriser

    kensalriser pfm Member

    Sorry to make a pedant's note but because I can't bear it, I will: it's wean, not ween.
  19. Mike Reed

    Mike Reed pfm Member

    I ween that you mean that it's wean and not ween as it never has been seen to mean, old bean :D
  20. stevec67

    stevec67 pfm Member

    That's the case in NYC too, I hear. Same scenario of tiny, astronomically expensive apartments where any more than a coffee machine and a microwave is a waste of space, so they eat out.

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