Should Scotland be an independent country?

[skito]

Sort of mirrors all the windbags who don't vote in the UK blathering on in the election and Brexit threads.

Perhaps this might be aimed at me having pitched in earlier to the Independence debate from here in Guangzhou, China and having failed to respond to the Decameron's earlier completely irrelevant question to me on the matter. With less than 300 posts since 2003 I don't reply to every irrelevant quip or question.

However I shall now given your senseless quip. I am still a homeowner in Scotland paying full council tax, income tax, utility bills etc. I also regular return home for months at a time facilitated by two lengthy breaks between Chinese University terms, I assure you I have full voting rights which I exercise.

Regardless however, let's assume I did not fulfil the criteria to vote on Independence due to temporary residency issues. Are you saying that as a 53 year old born and bred Scot with family in the UK, that I (or others in a similar situation ) should not be permitted to contribute to a discussion on this forum regarding the major political issue in centuries affecting my/their country and be referred to as ’windbags’!? That would invalidate anyone outwith Scotland from contributing to the discussion because they don't have a vote on the issue, even though their lives may be drastically affected by it. On this, Brexit, or any other issue on this forum having or not having the right to vote does not permit or bar the right to contribute.

 

[matt j]

You seem obsessed with food, Hugh.

How about this for a tasty snack between munchy boxes? Exciting, eh...

Available in hospitals in Scotland, apparently. When you scarper the UK obesity epidemic is going to drop significantly.

The £1.50 “heart attack on a plate” is crammed with bacon, sausage, black pudding, beans and an egg. It is available at the takeaway counter of a shop in Ninewells Hospital, Dundee.
Source : https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/hospital-pies-adding-britain-obesity-18747237

Seems like a good reason to move there to me, could do with some batter and deep frying though to be sure.

 

[TheDecameron]

Thank you for your compliance.

I’m thinking about putting up a trellis- that’ll ensure compliance.

 

[TheDecameron]

You sound quite exercised by the issue. Are you elegible to vote in Scotland?

Your response ( I think)-

Perhaps this might be aimed at me having pitched in earlier to the Independence debate from here in Guangzhou, China and having failed to respond to the Decameron's earlier completely irrelevant question to me on the matter. With less than 300 posts since 2003 I don't reply to every irrelevant quip or question.

However I shall now given your senseless quip. I am still a homeowner in Scotland paying full council tax, income tax, utility bills etc. I also regular return home for months at a time facilitated by two lengthy breaks between Chinese University terms, I assure you I have full voting rights which I exercise.

Regardless however, let's assume I did not fulfil the criteria to vote on Independence due to temporary residency issues. Are you saying that as a 53 year old born and bred Scot with family in the UK, that I (or others in a similar situation ) should not be permitted to contribute to a discussion on this forum regarding the major political issue in centuries affecting my/their country and be referred to as ’windbags’!? That would invalidate anyone outwith Scotland from contributing to the discussion because they don't have a vote on the issue, even though their lives may be drastically affected by it. On this, Brexit, or any other issue on this forum having or not having the right to vote does not permit or bar the right to contribute.

A simple question is “an irrelevant, senseless quip”? Why go to such lengths to respond if that’s the case? Also who called you a windbag? I can’t find that. Given you say you have a vote in Scotland then you have exactly the same ability as me to elect the representative you want and to have your say, like everyone else in any forthcoming referendum on independence. If enough people agree with you, then Scotland remains in the U.K.

 

[skito]

Your response ( I think)-


A simple question is “an irrelevant, senseless quip”? Why go to such lengths to respond if that’s the case? Also who called you a windbag? I can’t find that. Given you say you have a vote in Scotland then you have exactly the same ability as me to elect the representative you want and to have your say, like everyone else in any forthcoming referendum on independence. If enough people agree with you, then Scotland remains in the U.K.

See Joe's post which I quoted which refers to 'windbags' and which he quotes you in regarding the matter of voters. Voicing an opinion on a forum regardless of a right to vote does equate to being a 'winbag' nor is the issue relevant hence why I ignored your question in the first instance. Seeing Joe's 'windbags' quip and with time on my hands I decided I would reply.

Apologies too, I often sound unnecessarily harsh when I try to make my point which often results in me deleting or not making them. I'm not as skilled as yourself in this art and indeed often find your posts witty and entertaining.

 

[Joe]

Wind your neck in....it was nothing about you.

 

[richardg]

Lol

 

[Joe Hutch]

That would invalidate anyone outwith Scotland from contributing to the discussion because they don't have a vote on the issue, even though their lives may be drastically affected by it.

An almost fool-proof method of identifying a Scotsperson is the use of the word 'outwith'. It could be used in place of the word 'shibboleth' as a means of border control come the glorious day of liberation from the Saxon yoke,

 

[TheDecameron]

An almost fool-proof method of identifying a Scotsperson is the use of the word 'outwith'. It could be used in place of the word 'shibboleth' as a means of border control come the glorious day of liberation from the Saxon yoke,

I’d rather adjudicate on the ability to spell Pinocchio. For proper vetting, you can’t beat apostrophisation though.

 

[Joe]

It occurred to me ( upon thinking about it some more ) that ....

Given how divisive the Brexit referendum result has been due in the main because of the closeness of the result* what do the panel think should be a better way to avoid such a devision in future referenda ?

A higher proportion of the vote for a 'win' ...say 65% in favour.

A winning proportion of those eligible to vote ? ( difficult I imagine )

Or what.......?

And should this be applied both to any future re-run of Brexit and any Scottish independence referendum ?


* I think that a more emphatic result for or against would have been much better either way .

 

[HairyHaggis]

Lol

thus spake the master of levity and brevity in a single syllable.

 

[HairyHaggis]

An almost fool-proof method of identifying a Scotsperson is the use of the word 'outwith'. It could be used in place of the word 'shibboleth' as a means of border control come the glorious day of liberation from the Saxon yoke,

me no unnerstan'? maybe you mean "furth"?

 

[JensenHealey]

It occurred to me ( upon thinking about it some more ) that ....

Given how divisive the Brexit referendum result has been due in the main because of the closeness of the result* what do the panel think should be a better way to avoid such a devision in future referenda ?

A higher proportion of the vote for a 'win' ...say 65% in favour.

A winning proportion of those eligible to vote ? ( difficult I imagine )

Or what.......?

And should this be applied both to any future re-run of Brexit and any Scottish independence referendum ?


* I think that a more emphatic result for or against would have been much better either way .

I do think that on these effectively 'constitutional' matters (Brexit, Scot-off) that the result can only be properly valid if a super majority is obtained - defined as an overall majority of the voting population, not just the majority of those who vote.

 

[SteveG]

I do think that on these effectively 'constitutional' matters (Brexit, Scot-off) that the result can only be properly valid if a super majority is obtained - defined as an overall majority of the voting population, not just the majority of those who vote.

I think it was a big mistake to allow something as important as Brexit to be decided on such a slim majority (especially given that the terms of any exit weren't known at the time).

For the Scottish Devolution vote in 1979 the result was in favour of devolution, with the same margin as Brexit in fact - 52:48. A condition of the referendum was that 40% of the electorate had to vote in favour to make it happen, however as the turnover was only 63.6% then it was miles away from that happening (as only 32.9% of the total electorate had voted in favour). If only the same rule had been applied to Brexit!

When there was another vote on devolution in 1997 then that time there was a 74.3% vote in favour, which was 44.87% of the total electorate - so that time devolution did go ahead.

 

[kendo]

Nicola Sturgeon: Scotland 'cannot be imprisoned' in UK

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50799613

"The risk for the Conservatives here is the more they try to block the will of the Scottish people, the more utter contempt they show for Scottish democracy, the more they will increase support for Scottish independence - which in a sense is them doing my job for me."

 

[matt j]

It's great shame the Scots couldn't kick out all the Tory MPs, they'd have much more of a position to demand a referendum without. No doubt Johnson will use it to deny them.

 

[david ellwood]

I think so long as Scotland leaves the UK with its share (8.4% of 1800 Billion) National Debt and the rest of the UK no longer have to subsidise it, then its fine for it to go.

Whether Scotland is then allowed entry into the EU is debatable.

If Scotland were allowed entry its very unlikely that the previous levels of support would be forthcoming.

I very much doubt free prescriptions, Roof/Road repairs and university tuition would continue for long.

 

[Rockmeister]

It's great shame the Scots couldn't kick out all the Tory MPs, they'd have much more of a position to demand a referendum without. No doubt Johnson will use it to deny them.

SNPScottish National Party 45.0%
CONConservative 25.1%
LABLabour 18.6%
LDLiberal Democrat 9.5%
GRNGreen 1.0%
BRXThe Brexit Party 0.5%

Of that con 25%, 24% were from the borders, stuffed full of english middle class retirees ekeing out their pensions on cheap housing and a free prescription service
They also all voted remain.
I generalise a tad, but that's quite close.

Even so the vote there did take a significant swing towards the SNP, with the con majority reduced by about 1/3rd I think.

 

[richardg]

Nicola Sturgeon: Scotland 'cannot be imprisoned' in UK

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50799613

"The risk for the Conservatives here is the more they try to block the will of the Scottish people, the more utter contempt they show for Scottish democracy, the more they will increase support for Scottish independence - which in a sense is them doing my job for me."

I am all for a second ref and the independence that might follow but her party has about as much scope as the referendum itself and she still did not get half the Scottish votes, did she? In conclusion, it is not conclusive that Scotland wants independence. In the meantime, Boris will be lobbing sweeteners up there whilst keeping her at arms length at least until he is sure she will lose.

 

[Rockmeister]

I think so long as Scotland leaves the UK with its share (8.4% of 1800 Billion) National Debt and the rest of the UK no longer have to subsidise it, then its fine for it to go.

Whether Scotland is then allowed entry into the EU is debatable.

If Scotland were allowed entry its very unlikely that the previous levels of support would be forthcoming.

I very much doubt free prescriptions, Roof/Road repairs and university tuition would continue for long.

I sense that the Scots feel able to stand on their own feet, that membership of the EU would attract a lot of new industry and services north of the border, so that free trade could continue and there is no reason why public services might not be able to be maintained. If they fell, they'd not drop to English standards of incompetence?