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Should Scotland be an independent country?

Discussion in 'off topic' started by Deej, Nov 9, 2019.

?

Should Scotland be an independent country?

This poll will close on Nov 9, 2020 at 1:24 PM.
  1. Yes

    57.7%
  2. No

    34.0%
  3. Not sure

    8.2%
  1. Funk

    Funk pfm Member

    But it's not 're-joining'. It was never a member in its own right. That's like saying I have a mortgage with a partner in a married name and combined incomes which qualify us for that mortgage. We split up, the mortgage account is closed and I no longer qualify (or earn enough) to have that same mortgage back. I would have to make a new application under my own name and with my solo income.

    I've seen this misleadingly said many times (including by the SNP) - Scotland isn't a member of the EU currently, the United Kingdom is. If Scotland leaves the UK (which has left the EU) then Scotland would have to make a new application under its own name and with its 'solo income' as it were.

    Which, unfortunately for Scotland, would rule it out of being eligible to join the EU.
     
  2. Caledon1297

    Caledon1297 pfm Member

    So the other EU member states should have a vote on the UK leaving the EU?

    If you join a club, existing members get their say - if you leave one that you are already member of, that's your decision.
    Scotland has 59 out of 650 MPs - how would that work? (clue, it doesn't)

    Scotland is being taken out of the EU against its wishes, and has been ignored throughout that process; it is now told that not only will Westminster ignore the existing mandate for an Independence referendum (from the 2o16 Holyrood election, and subsequent vote in favour in the democratically elected Parliament of Scotland), but also any future mandates, such as an SNP win in Scotland in the forthcoming Westminster Election, or another pro-independence majority in Holyrood 2021.

    Real 'union of equals'... not!
     
  3. Funk

    Funk pfm Member

    No it isn't. The question was 'Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the EU?". The vote was taken as 'the UK' - if Scotland didn't want to be part of decisions taken by the UK as a whole then it should have voted to leave the UK in the Scottish independence referendum.

    Scotland can't keep picking and choosing which bits of 'being part of the UK' suit it as and when. And to say it 'was ignored throughout the process' is a lie - if Scots hadn't been allowed to vote in the EU referendum then I'd agree with you but everyone in the UK got to vote, and everyone's vote counted.
     
    PhilofCas, eternumviti and Joe like this.
  4. HairyHaggis

    HairyHaggis <((((º>`•.¸¸.•´¯`•.¸.•´¯`•...¸><((((º>¸.

    of course it's not, it's an english convenience otherwise it simply wouldn't exist. me? cynical? shirely shome mishtake?
     
    Caledon1297 likes this.
  5. SteveT

    SteveT pfm Member

    There are 73 UK MEPs in a Parliament of 751 MEPs. I see your point.....
     
    eternumviti and Joe like this.
  6. Caledon1297

    Caledon1297 pfm Member

    Yes, it is; the SNP called for a double-lock for the EU referendum, i.e. if the UK vote was to leave, each of the UK's constituent countries would also have to vote in favour of leaving for the result to be valid, but, surprise surprise, this was also ignored.

    So you're calling me a liar, now - nice.

    BTW, what if it had been the other way round, and a narrow leave vote in England was negated by a remain vote in Scotland - would England just accept that it was UK vote? We'll never know, of course, but I know what my guess would be.

    Also, as has been pointed out many times now, if Scotland is such a supposed drain on England, why have successive Westminster Governments been at great pains to hold on us? Benevolence?! ROTFLMAO.
     
  7. Yank

    Yank Bulbous Also Tapered

    If Brexit goes through, then yes to independent Scotland. That'll show 'em.
     
  8. richgilb

    richgilb Admonishtrator

    There is a line to be drawn somewhere. The EU is massive. The UK is not
     
  9. Vinny

    Vinny pfm Member

    Purely a choice for the Scots.
    I hope that we stay together though.

    On a practical front, you'd have considerable extra costs imposed on Scottish tax-payers, absolutely inevitably, if they go their own way. Plus the hassle of the currency - the Scots would PROBABLY be using the £ and have not one tiny amount of control over their "own" currency.
    As for Scotland re-joining the EU, as an independent country, the EU have stated categorically that any new members would have to be part of the currency union, and just because Scotland had been part of the UK, they would NOT get any of the UK's current perks.

    Personally, I would think Scottish independence would be nuts all round, but then I think leaving the EU is far nuttier than completely nuts, voted for based upon countless lunatic and fantasy assumptions and declarations.
     
  10. Joe

    Joe pfm Member

    Was it ignored ? or was it's desired outcome merely not granted ? semantics possibly but one is not the other.
     
    Funk likes this.
  11. Caledon1297

    Caledon1297 pfm Member

    Semantics probably, I would say, but express it however you wish, the end result is the same.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2019
  12. Funk

    Funk pfm Member

    It doesn't matter what the SNP 'called for'. The UK was asked, the UK voted. The fact the SNP (and/or Scotland) don't like it is, by and large, tough luck. In fact it would be ridiculous to insist on each constituent country voting - the SNP only want that because it's how they think they will get what they want.

    Calling you a liar? Yes, if you tell a lie it makes you a liar. Please show me where Scotland was 'ignored in the process'? You can't, because it wasn't.

    In fact I'd go as far as to say that Scotland enjoys far greater rights as part of the Union than England does.

    I believe in democracy, even if the outcome isn't the one I wanted so yes, I would respect that the UK were to remain in the EU.

    To be honest I'm beginning to wonder why myself.

    As noted earlier it seems Scots are starting to be overly-rude, aggressive and blatantly anti-English so if Scots want to leave the UK, let us vote on it and I'm pretty certain it'd result in Scotland leaving.
     
  13. sq225917

    sq225917 situation engineer

    The Scots should be free to do what they want. Sexist sounds good.
     
  14. Richard Lines

    Richard Lines pfm Member

    Good Afternoon All,

    As a 50% English/ 50% Welch person living up here for the last 20 years and sort of worked out of Aberdeen for 36 years I have a view.

    The 2014 'vote' was on the question 'Do you believe in an independent Scotland?'. All other things being equal then I would vote Yes but things aren't equal and I don't understand why a lot of people living North of the border struggle with this.

    Scotland gets a disproportionate amount of the national 'take' via the Barnett formal as mentioned elsewhere. The much touted oil/ gas offshore doesn't belong to Scotland (technically you could argue it doesn't even belong to the UK if outside the 12 mile limit as international bodies have yet to agree on any boundary outwith 12 miles).

    Following a successful independence vote Scotland would be out of the EU, it has no currency and overall I can't see anything but a gradual decline in standards for all services over a period of time.

    Brexit and Scottish independence are of little significance in comparison to climate change, but let's keep discussing what can only be called 'trivia' - something about Nero fiddling while Rome burns???

    Regards

    Richard
     
  15. canonman

    canonman pfm Member

    Just imagine the uproar if a new vote gave a 52:48 result!
     
  16. glancaster

    glancaster In the silicon vale

    I’m English so I don’t get a say, except perhaps to say I think the UK as a whole benefits from Scots’ participation (e.g. for three quarters of the time since the turn of the millennium, there’s been a Scot as UK PM, Chancellor, or Chief Secretary to the Treasury, sometimes more than one at the same time) and I’d be sad to see Scotland go.
     
  17. Brian

    Brian Eating fat, staying slim

    Got to say, I don’t really want the break up of the UK but if the nationalists keep bringing this up they should just go, it’s the only way these idiots are going to see reality. The rest of the UK will be fine and it’ll be amusing when they come back with the begging bowl but don’t get as a good a deal out of the rest of the UK as they have now. That’s if we take them back in.

    Funny how these nationalists are so prepared to destroy the chances of the younger generation of Scots.
     
  18. Bob McC

    Bob McC Living the life of Riley

    Like Vinny
    I reckon it’s no one’s business but the Scots.

    Some of the little englander shite being posted here, like the previous post, is offensive in the extreme.
     
  19. Caledon1297

    Caledon1297 pfm Member

    Surprisingly enough, I don't take kindly to being called a liar, and given the nature of your posts, I suspect that I'd only be wasting my time - if you wish to take this as there being no evidence for Scotland being ignored, have at it, although you could do some of your own research (unless your mind is too closed for that)?

    My question was not whether you would accept the result, but whether a leave voting England would?

    Evidence, please, and lots of it (given that you didn't specify 'some', a minority etc), but simply Scots 'starting to be overly-rude, aggressive and blatantly anti-English'?
     
  20. Vinny

    Vinny pfm Member

    Brexit again...……………..my apologies for fuelling the fire.

    Do you know what REALLY p's me off? This claim that to remain would be to ignore 17,410,742 people. BALONEY - to remain ignores 1,269,501 people (who actually voted). Unless you want to say that to leave ignores 16,141,241 people.
     

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