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Should Scotland be an independent country?

Should Scotland be an independent country?


  • Total voters
    132
  • Poll closed .
This’ll be the first time a country has been made to leave the EU against the wishes of its majority and the first time such a state would be applying to rejoin. Then of course theres the question of EU sentiment toward a political leader like Johnson and his faction with the Tory Party who’ve not only sought to leave the EU but have publicly voiced intent to undermine it and have active plans to deregulate and compete which will de facto undermine the EU. Context matters.

But it's not 're-joining'. It was never a member in its own right. That's like saying I have a mortgage with a partner in a married name and combined incomes which qualify us for that mortgage. We split up, the mortgage account is closed and I no longer qualify (or earn enough) to have that same mortgage back. I would have to make a new application under my own name and with my solo income.

I've seen this misleadingly said many times (including by the SNP) - Scotland isn't a member of the EU currently, the United Kingdom is. If Scotland leaves the UK (which has left the EU) then Scotland would have to make a new application under its own name and with its 'solo income' as it were.

Which, unfortunately for Scotland, would rule it out of being eligible to join the EU.
 
It would perhaps be fairer if the other countries in the union were invited to vote, as per this poll, sort of. Looks like a double winner.

So the other EU member states should have a vote on the UK leaving the EU?

If you join a club, existing members get their say - if you leave one that you are already member of, that's your decision.
Sorry for being so slow and not being as perceptive as some of the pro Remain and pro Scottish Independence protagonists but if Westminster is such a malign force holding back the Scottish people why not get the SNP to effect change within the current system instead of running away from it. A bit like the UK MEPS effecting change against overwhelming odds in the European Parliament. Oh hang on a second I think I might have misunderstood the situation.

Scotland has 59 out of 650 MPs - how would that work? (clue, it doesn't)

Scotland is being taken out of the EU against its wishes, and has been ignored throughout that process; it is now told that not only will Westminster ignore the existing mandate for an Independence referendum (from the 2o16 Holyrood election, and subsequent vote in favour in the democratically elected Parliament of Scotland), but also any future mandates, such as an SNP win in Scotland in the forthcoming Westminster Election, or another pro-independence majority in Holyrood 2021.

Real 'union of equals'... not!
 
Scotland is being taken out of the EU against its wishes, and has been ignored throughout that process;
No it isn't. The question was 'Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the EU?". The vote was taken as 'the UK' - if Scotland didn't want to be part of decisions taken by the UK as a whole then it should have voted to leave the UK in the Scottish independence referendum.

Scotland can't keep picking and choosing which bits of 'being part of the UK' suit it as and when. And to say it 'was ignored throughout the process' is a lie - if Scots hadn't been allowed to vote in the EU referendum then I'd agree with you but everyone in the UK got to vote, and everyone's vote counted.
 
No it isn't. The question was 'Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the EU?". The vote was taken as 'the UK' - if Scotland didn't want to be part of decisions taken by the UK as a whole then it should have voted to leave in the independence referendum.

Scotland can't keep picking and choosing which bits of 'being part of the UK' suit it as and when. And to say it 'was ignored throughout the process' is a lie - if Scots hadn't been allowed to vote in the EU referendum then I'd agree with you but everyone in the UK got to vote, and everyone's vote counted.

Yes, it is; the SNP called for a double-lock for the EU referendum, i.e. if the UK vote was to leave, each of the UK's constituent countries would also have to vote in favour of leaving for the result to be valid, but, surprise surprise, this was also ignored.

So you're calling me a liar, now - nice.

BTW, what if it had been the other way round, and a narrow leave vote in England was negated by a remain vote in Scotland - would England just accept that it was UK vote? We'll never know, of course, but I know what my guess would be.

Also, as has been pointed out many times now, if Scotland is such a supposed drain on England, why have successive Westminster Governments been at great pains to hold on us? Benevolence?! ROTFLMAO.
 
If Brexit goes through, then yes to independent Scotland. That'll show 'em.
 
Purely a choice for the Scots.
I hope that we stay together though.

On a practical front, you'd have considerable extra costs imposed on Scottish tax-payers, absolutely inevitably, if they go their own way. Plus the hassle of the currency - the Scots would PROBABLY be using the £ and have not one tiny amount of control over their "own" currency.
As for Scotland re-joining the EU, as an independent country, the EU have stated categorically that any new members would have to be part of the currency union, and just because Scotland had been part of the UK, they would NOT get any of the UK's current perks.

Personally, I would think Scottish independence would be nuts all round, but then I think leaving the EU is far nuttier than completely nuts, voted for based upon countless lunatic and fantasy assumptions and declarations.
 
Yes, it is; the SNP called for a double-lock for the EU referendum, i.e. if the UK vote was to leave, each of the UK's constituent countries would also have to vote in favour of leaving for the result to be valid, but, surprise surprise, this was also ignored.

.

Was it ignored ? or was it's desired outcome merely not granted ? semantics possibly but one is not the other.
 
Was it ignored ? or was it's desired outcome merely not granted ? semantics possibly but one is not the other.

Semantics probably, I would say, but express it however you wish, the end result is the same.
 
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Yes, it is; the SNP called for a double-lock for the EU referendum, i.e. if the UK vote was to leave, each of the UK's constituent countries would also have to vote in favour of leaving for the result to be valid, but, surprise surprise, this was also ignored.

So you're calling me a liar, now - nice.

It doesn't matter what the SNP 'called for'. The UK was asked, the UK voted. The fact the SNP (and/or Scotland) don't like it is, by and large, tough luck. In fact it would be ridiculous to insist on each constituent country voting - the SNP only want that because it's how they think they will get what they want.

Calling you a liar? Yes, if you tell a lie it makes you a liar. Please show me where Scotland was 'ignored in the process'? You can't, because it wasn't.

In fact I'd go as far as to say that Scotland enjoys far greater rights as part of the Union than England does.

BTW, what if it had been the other way round, and a narrow leave vote in England was negated by a remain vote in Scotland - would England just accept that it was UK vote? We'll never know, of course, but I know what my guess would be.

I believe in democracy, even if the outcome isn't the one I wanted so yes, I would respect that the UK were to remain in the EU.

Also, as has been pointed out many times now, if Scotland is such a supposed drain on England, why have successive Westminster Governments been at great pains to hold on us? Benevolence?! ROTFLMAO.
To be honest I'm beginning to wonder why myself.

As noted earlier it seems Scots are starting to be overly-rude, aggressive and blatantly anti-English so if Scots want to leave the UK, let us vote on it and I'm pretty certain it'd result in Scotland leaving.
 
Good Afternoon All,

As a 50% English/ 50% Welch person living up here for the last 20 years and sort of worked out of Aberdeen for 36 years I have a view.

The 2014 'vote' was on the question 'Do you believe in an independent Scotland?'. All other things being equal then I would vote Yes but things aren't equal and I don't understand why a lot of people living North of the border struggle with this.

Scotland gets a disproportionate amount of the national 'take' via the Barnett formal as mentioned elsewhere. The much touted oil/ gas offshore doesn't belong to Scotland (technically you could argue it doesn't even belong to the UK if outside the 12 mile limit as international bodies have yet to agree on any boundary outwith 12 miles).

Following a successful independence vote Scotland would be out of the EU, it has no currency and overall I can't see anything but a gradual decline in standards for all services over a period of time.

Brexit and Scottish independence are of little significance in comparison to climate change, but let's keep discussing what can only be called 'trivia' - something about Nero fiddling while Rome burns???

Regards

Richard
 
I’m English so I don’t get a say, except perhaps to say I think the UK as a whole benefits from Scots’ participation (e.g. for three quarters of the time since the turn of the millennium, there’s been a Scot as UK PM, Chancellor, or Chief Secretary to the Treasury, sometimes more than one at the same time) and I’d be sad to see Scotland go.
 
Got to say, I don’t really want the break up of the UK but if the nationalists keep bringing this up they should just go, it’s the only way these idiots are going to see reality. The rest of the UK will be fine and it’ll be amusing when they come back with the begging bowl but don’t get as a good a deal out of the rest of the UK as they have now. That’s if we take them back in.

Funny how these nationalists are so prepared to destroy the chances of the younger generation of Scots.
 
It doesn't matter what the SNP 'called for'. The UK was asked, the UK voted. The fact the SNP (and/or Scotland) don't like it is, by and large, tough luck. In fact it would be ridiculous to insist on each constituent country voting - the SNP only want that because it's how they think they will get what they want.

Calling you a liar? Yes, if you tell a lie it makes you a liar. Please show me where Scotland was 'ignored in the process'? You can't, because it wasn't.

In fact I'd go as far as to say that Scotland enjoys far greater rights as part of the Union than England does.



I believe in democracy, even if the outcome isn't the one I wanted so yes, I would respect that the UK were to remain in the EU.


To be honest I'm beginning to wonder why myself.

As noted earlier it seems Scots are starting to be overly-rude, aggressive and blatantly anti-English so if Scots want to leave the UK, let us vote on it and I'm pretty certain it'd result in Scotland leaving.

Surprisingly enough, I don't take kindly to being called a liar, and given the nature of your posts, I suspect that I'd only be wasting my time - if you wish to take this as there being no evidence for Scotland being ignored, have at it, although you could do some of your own research (unless your mind is too closed for that)?

My question was not whether you would accept the result, but whether a leave voting England would?

Evidence, please, and lots of it (given that you didn't specify 'some', a minority etc), but simply Scots 'starting to be overly-rude, aggressive and blatantly anti-English'?
 
Brexit again...……………..my apologies for fuelling the fire.

Do you know what REALLY p's me off? This claim that to remain would be to ignore 17,410,742 people. BALONEY - to remain ignores 1,269,501 people (who actually voted). Unless you want to say that to leave ignores 16,141,241 people.
 


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