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Should England hold a referendum to leave the UK, leaving Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland

Should England hold a referendum to leave the UK, leaving Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland ?

  • Yes

    Votes: 26 48.1%

  • No

    Votes: 28 51.9%
  • Total voters
    54
Rockmeister said:
Well, most. Some would be quietly 'discouraged' late one night in Glasgow alleyway :)
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TheDecameron said:
Dog bowl politics. What did you vote in the thread poll about English independence btw?
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Colin Barron said:
How would security, currency and subsidies operate for the independent Scotland, NI and Wales.
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When the financial crash happend there was one country in Europe not affected it being one of the richest countries in the world . Norway with a simlour population to Scotland. Norway managed its offshore resources properly. Westminster blow the lot. The UK has more debt today than in 2010 yet we are going to borrow more. The whole system is knackered when is the population going to wake up to this.
 
claire.foxx said:
Does a smaller, more inward and insular island state like England (without Scotland and possibly Wales) really need the financial cost of keeping up with the international joneses? Without the burden of spending a significant amount that we cannot afford on a vanity defence/war machine, scrapping it would be a win/win for both countries. You could spend it on things like teachers, schools, colleges, hospitals, social care, libraries, free school meals, infrastructure and much needed upgrades instead.
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This is the kind of thinking that was prevalent in the interwar period. The Great War was over, and was the 'war to end all wars'. The priority was to rebuild, to make the country 'fit for heroes'. By the time Britain realised it needed to rearm, it had left it perilously late, and we almost tipped into one of those alternative timeline novels that are so intriguing and popular.

Defence seems expensive, when all is peaceful, but actually that is when it is paying off most handsomely. By the time you get into a war, certainly one of national survival, you realise the folly of going cheap. At that point, a lot of people die, and you spend so much money that your peacetime defence expenditure looks like chicken feed; or you lose, and your teachers, schools, hospitals, infrastructure and all the rest are no longer yours to control, but the playthings of the victors; or perhaps both.

One of the roles of the UK is to be a significant military and nuclear power, a counterbalance to the larger declared powers, and also to the smaller, less stable, undeclared ones. Somebody's got to do it. And somebody decided it was us.

Given the current dispositions of these other powers towards us (and, for the US, its own increasing insularity), this is more important now than it has been for a long time.

Kind regards

- Garry
 
ff1d1l said:
Detail. It is UK currency, as you said, and would stay with the UK.
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I seem to recall that during the Scottish referendum the Treasury categorically stated that if Scotland voted to leave they would not be able to use the Pound ( Sterling ).

Has that changed since then ? ( I know that the SNP argued that they would be able to but were repeatedly corrected on that by the UK government {
 
Joe said:
I seem to recall that during the Scottish referendum the Treasury categorically stated that if Scotland voted to leave they would not be able to use the Pound ( Sterling ).

Has that changed since then ? ( I know that the SNP argued that they would be able to but were repeatedly corrected on that by the UK government {
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The precedent seemingly created by Brexit is: if you broke it, you fix it. The rules about 'who keeps the pound' for Scotland leaving the UK may differ from those for England leaving the UK. Perhaps 'rest of UK' gets to keep it, whatever 'rest of UK' actually is?
 
I was assuming that the OP was a joke...reading some posts here i see it wasn't that funny to some.
The xenophobes are def above the parapet! :(
 
Rockmeister said:
I was assuming that the OP was a joke...reading some posts here i see it wasn't that funny to some.
The xenophobes are def above the parapet! :(
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One of the revealing things about the whole Brexit process is how initially Remainers liked to point out to Leavers how it could easily cause the break-up of the UK, as if it were a killer argument to Remain. Then it turned out that, for a large number of Leavers, this wasn't a downside of Brexit, it was part of the point of Brexit.
 
richgilb said:
I don't think this at all. I just reworded post 7, which got no similar attack, only likes. Please explain that, Hugh.
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On a thread about England having an independence referendum, unsurprisingly you again divert to another subject- Scottish independence. You vote to leave the EU, you move to France then complain that France and the EU institutions are not to your liking. The EU is racist, it’s anti business etc etc. You ride around on your bike making rude hand gestures to the Instituations of the country you moved to. It’s like debating with someone who gets his political philosophy ( such as it is) from democratic football lads alliance blogs. You just sound like a seething, provincial curtain twitcher Rich.
 
glancaster said:
One of the revealing things about the whole Brexit process is how initially Remainers liked to point out to Leavers how it could easily cause the break-up of the UK, as if it were a killer argument to Remain. Then it turned out that, for a large number of Leavers, this wasn't a downside of Brexit, it was part of the point of Brexit.
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Brexit is primarily a maladroit expression of English ethnic nationalism and a reaction by the English regions left behind by decades of failed Westminster policy. A majority of Scots and the people of the north of Ireland didn’t vote for it and at least half the voting population of England didn’t vote for it. The illusion that it was a British movement has been laid bare- even prominent Conservatives like Clarke, Major and Heseltine have named it. When you are prevented from correctly identifying a problem because it’s in disguise, you can’t really address it.
England has every right to assert its cultural identity and political aspirations- these seem to have got placed in the political hijacking called Brexit. I think the only way to do that is to have separation of voting on a far deeper level than Westminster and the Scottish Parliament / Welsh and N.Irish Assemblies. The first task it seems reasonable to address is separate national referendums on leaving or remaining in the EU. If we continue down the ‘we are all leaving together, no ifs, no buts’ then the UK will fracture and in a disorderly manner. Sustaining the ‘precious Union’ myth serves no one. Time to grab the bull by the horns.
 
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It already has fractured in a disorderly manner. However those fracture points have been there for decades and the far right of a metastasised Conservative party is taking advantage of that
 
are you sure you have the borders in the right p;ace
and etc etc
'The Scots' are not united behind one ide. The English culture is so diverse it can only be identified as 'diverse'...there is very little shared idea about who 'we' are, just who I am.
If you want a referendum, ask us all!.
 
glancaster said:
The UK is a single sovereign nation. Aside from the basic geography of the land, it isn't clear what belongs to each of the constituent parts. If you think Brexit is a PITA, you ain't seen nothing. Engexit, or Scotexit for that matter, would be far, far worse. To start with, imagine that Boris Johnson and Nicola Sturgeon were somehow enchanted into getting married, having kids, a shared bank account & mortgage, and an all-in 'what's yours is mine, what's mine is yours' kind of relationship, then woke up many years later as their normal selves and wanted to get divorced. Like that, but more so.
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Sexit sounds better.
 
Joe said:
I seem to recall that during the Scottish referendum the Treasury categorically stated that if Scotland voted to leave they would not be able to use the Pound ( Sterling ).

Has that changed since then ? ( I know that the SNP argued that they would be able to but were repeatedly corrected on that by the UK government {
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Scotland, NI and Wales can keep the pound and England can switch over to the US dollar, as befits the 51st state, which is what the tories seem to want.
 
I.D.C. said:
When the financial crash happend there was one country in Europe not affected it being one of the richest countries in the world . Norway with a simlour population to Scotland. Norway managed its offshore resources properly. Westminster blow the lot. The UK has more debt today than in 2010 yet we are going to borrow more. The whole system is knackered when is the population going to wake up to this.
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Just wait til Corbyn finds himself in No.10 with McDonnell holed up next door. The financial issues of the UK over the last decade will look like a kids' party in comparison to the chaos those two would wreak in power...!
 
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