Shirley Williams dies aged 90
- Thread starter Cav
- Start date
Joe Hutch
Mate of the bloke
But surely the standard left-wing view is that people who disagree profoundly with the party's principles should quit? And if you believe that Labour would have won with the 1983 manifesto, even if Williams and co hadn't left, you'll believe anything. Apart from anything else, the manifesto contained a pledge that Labour would take the UK out of the EU without a referendum, and without a deal, despite the fact that the UK had voted less than ten years previously to stay in the EU, by a large majority.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
No, that’s a right wing view that non believers in their ideology should be purged, and a view backed up with considerable force and at the expense of considerable self harm. Expelling members for ideological reasons is what the right wing of Labour has been doing for many years now, and continues to do.
The right wingers want Labour to be a narrow church and they feel more comfortable sharing the pews with hard line Tories than they do with Left wingers.
JensenHealey
pfm Member
Wasn't that also the manifesto that included a promise to nationalise all the banks immediately? I seem to recall I was in California at the time, so this was the only General Election I have ever missed. I promised myself I would stay in California if that happened... (actually I wanted to stay anyway, a job and girlfriend there was a big pull, but it was not to be)
droodzilla
pfm Member
See for yourself:
http://www.labour-party.org.uk/manifestos/1983/1983-labour-manifesto.shtml
The answer is no, by the way (unless banks failed to cooperate with the proposed regulation). I wonder if a bit more regulation would have helped in 2008...
The stuff on nuclear weapons is interesting. It's a bit of a fudge with no unambiguous commitment to unilateral nuclear disarmament, though there is plenty of talk of working towards disarmament with other nations, pushing for existing non-proliferation measures to be honoured, and so forth. A classic case of history being (re)written by the victors; see also,"Labour crashed the economy".
droodzilla
pfm Member
That Labour Party manifesto is a fascinating read. It really highlights how our perception of politics is shaped by the way it's reported at the time and the narrative that crystallises around that. The reality is usually more complex, and interesting.
In a similar vein, I present the Liberal-SDP manifesto for the 1983 general election:
http://www.libdemmanifesto.com/1983/1983-liberal-manifesto.shtml
It's certainly to the right of Labour's 1983 effort but what's striking is how much to the left it is of any political party now (including the present day Lib-Dems).
It's a good indication of how far right the UK has drifted. Conservative Party policy is now almost indistinguishable from the National Front's circa 1980.
droodzilla
pfm Member
About Shirley Williams, I know I probably shouldn't say this, but I liked her. She always came across as intelligent and principled to me, even if I didn't always agree with her. And, as I suggest in my previous post, she was well to the left of many current Labour MPs.
I hereby resign from "The PFM Politburo" with immediate effect.
I hereby resign from "The PFM Politburo" with immediate effect.
Seeker_UK
Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans
Sounds like militant centrist behaviour.
Seeker_UK
Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
She navigated the Amazon in a boat made from coconuts and knicker elastic, won the Nobel prize for discovering a sub atomic particle called a ‘Roy’, and won silver in the 1956 olympics for rifle shooting, a skill she picked up as sniper for the SAS
Prove me wrong without resorting to WIki!
doctorf
left footed right winger
I’ll take that as a ‘no’ then.
Cav
pfm Member
Busted. She was a worthless waste of space like all politicians.
Well done, you must be so proud of that threadcrap.
SteveS1
I heard that, pardon?
Does it take a "great mind" to think that Labour's subsequent record - losing three elections on the spin and spending an interminable sixteen years in opposition, suggests otherwise? Let's hope they never have to "do quite well" again.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
David Owen was on R4 yesterday saying that he begged her to become leader, but refused. It appears she didn’t have the self confidence in her own abilities she might have.
To my mind, that’s no bad thing. Perhaps we as an electorate should put our trust in more humble and honest politicians, rather than the grandiose liars and cheats whose self confidence is matched only by their incompetence.
Perhaps we’d have better politics if we voted for integrity and honesty in a humble package, rather than being dazzled by a nice suit a posh accent and false promises?
Nero
Re: Tired
Ahem. The sub atomic particle was called a 'Woy'. Pedantry is the soul of writ.