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Serious demonstration question

Avonessence

Avonessence

Hiking Consistency Rapporteur
If you were demonstrating two separate pairs of speakers: would you think it was odd that the speaker cable was also changed to a different make for the other pair of speakers to be demonstrated?
 
If the person demonstrating the speakers thinks that cables are important, i'd have thought they would swap them with the speakers to show the speakers in the best possible light.

The same goes with power amps - if you are considering swapping speakers, then getting a power amp to match is important. If the speakers are of very different efficiencies, then I can see a change in power amp, say, one optimised for low/zero crossover distortion (say some single ended valve) for efficient speakers vs something aimed squarely at delivering current (say, a big parallel class B transistor design) for inefficient.
 
Choosing a suitable amp that properly drives the loudspeaker makes complete sense, changing cables won't make the slightest difference, unless the 'other' cables have a filter network or wildly different electrical characteristics.
Keith.
 
I'd like to know why
Unless there are potential problems I'd like to hear them with the same cables too
 
Avonessence said:
If you were demonstrating two separate pairs of speakers: would you think it was odd that the speaker cable was also changed to a different make for the other pair of speakers to be demonstrated?
Click to expand...

No, but I might ask why it was necessary.
 
To me it sounds like the dealer may have just been trying to show the speakers in their best light. When I switched to TQ black in my old system, it made a huge improvement over the missing link slingshot stuff I was using.

As Keith said, different electrical characteristics. I wonder, how many of us are using bell wire here?
 
MBL speakers from Germany are believed to work better with copper cables and not so well with silver.

Some cables - like Auditorium 23 - are optimised for use with tube/class A amps.
 
I wouldn't bother about a dealer changing cables in a demo , the room, placement, sitting position and other equipment will most likely be totally different to yours and what you hear there might not be at all what you hear in your house.
 
Avonessence said:
If you were demonstrating two separate pairs of speakers: would you think it was odd that the speaker cable was also changed to a different make for the other pair of speakers to be demonstrated?
Click to expand...

Some very interesting comments, thanks guys for your input so far.

In addition to the above, would it be more acceptable if one set of speaker cables were a well used pair (5 years old) and the other set were virtually brand new (about a week) and known to need about 500 hours of use to really open up.

PS-There is no filter networks or gizmo's on either speaker cables, they are just speaker cables.
 
If you're considering spending a considerable sum of money I'd be asking for a home demo. As Rodney_Gold said, they're going to sound COMPLETELY different in your listening room anyway so whether he uses bell wire or titanium covered unicorn hair braided by a south american pigmy it makes not a jot of a difference.
 
500 hours of playing , at 5 hours a day is around 3 months, I would NEVER buy an item if it took 3 months to break in. Does it make a difference if you play loud or soft? What genre of music is best to "break in" those cables? Or should you just listen to brown or pink noise for 1/4 of a year?
 
Avonessence said:
Some very interesting comments, thanks guys for your input so far.

In addition to the above, would it be more acceptable if one set of speaker cables were a well used pair (5 years old) and the other set were virtually brand new (about a week) and known to need about 500 hours of use to really open up.

PS-There is no filter networks or gizmo's on either speaker cables, they are just speaker cables.
Click to expand...

If any dealer spouted unadulterated untruths like that to me during a demo, he would under no circumstances get my custom.

Chris
 
Avonessence said:
Some very interesting comments, thanks guys for your input so far.

In addition to the above, would it be more acceptable if one set of speaker cables were a well used pair (5 years old) and the other set were virtually brand new (about a week) and known to need about 500 hours of use to really open up.

PS-There is no filter networks or gizmo's on either speaker cables, they are just speaker cables.
Click to expand...

Now you are having a giraffe ... aren't you?
 
Avonessence said:
Some very interesting comments, thanks guys for your input so far.

In addition to the above, would it be more acceptable if one set of speaker cables were a well used pair (5 years old) and the other set were virtually brand new (about a week) and known to need about 500 hours of use to really open up.

PS-There is no filter networks or gizmo's on either speaker cables, they are just speaker cables.
Click to expand...

OK, suspend disbelief for a moment.

If something requires running in (it doesn't matter if it's a car or a loudspeaker cable), it is beholden upon the dealer of that something to provide a fully run in demonstrator for potential customers. OK, if that something was launched on the Monday and you are in the store on the Tuesday for your demonstration, you should set aside any expectations of hundreds of hours of bedding in for obvious reasons. But in all other cases, if the store is providing a full service, which includes demonstration, then the demonstration products should be working within their correct and stable operating conditions. If a cable requires hundreds of hours of conditioning (according to the cable supplier) and its retail base does not perform those hundreds of hours of conditioning for its demonstration stock, I would complain to the cable company because the retailer is not doing due diligence in its business.

However, re-engaging disbelief, I can't see what or how any kind of cable burn in can make a difference from an objective standing. I don't entirely dismiss the concept as nonsensical because there might be something in it, but it's something I've never experienced, or can be particularly bothered to test. I have also experienced the awful sound of new Naim products going from good to dreadful and back again over the course of about a week or two until the sound stabilises, and have had the same thing happen after a long break without being powered up. I can't say this for sure, because I didn't have a control fully run in Naim component and one fresh out the box to compare, but I'd lay bets the rollercoaster good/bad/good/dreadful/good period can be spotted on any test, blind or not.

However, I have to say the bias surrounding aspects like this is so strong that even if someone were bothered to test it and had the wherewithal to test it, they'd be pilloried whatever the outcome. This is because those who take an objective line think the whole cable thing is nonsense, and the idea of cables changing over time is therefore nonsense on stilts, while those who take a subjective line 'know' they have heard cables improve by being run in for hundreds of hours and think testing that claim is a challenge to their hearing acuity.
 
Looks like someone is trying to maximise his margin to me ;)

Plenty of cables take an age to settle and run-in. You just have to know what the reasons are, why this could possibly happen, and then experience it for yourself to believe that the burn-in of cables in certain applications is a relevant one.

I've no issue in someone believing that extended burn-in is fudge, they have probably never encountered a cable that goes through the phenomenom, or just have no reason to believe it is possible. But I've been on the receiving end of some cables that do strange things for quite an extended period of time.

Sometimes things just take a little time for the magic to happen.
 
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