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Sennheiser HD600 offer

I think it - reliability - follows the bathtub -curve about price vs quality vs 'market experience'.
A lot of really cheap-stuff and some of the so-expensive-it's-inexcusable recent market-entrants have form for this, as described by To-To Man

To put in context - the difference for each of us between our own ears in gross terms is far wilder in measured response - and very esp %THD (the ear itself is at around 30% thd by 100dB) but then, the amazing wetware between seems to compensate for all that also!

Well for the diffuse -field at least: it has never had to deal with discrete soundsources so damn close to the eardrum, in all of our evolution.
 
Interesting point Martin.

Having worked in high volume automotive manufacturing I think I can understand why this is the case. "Cheap stuff" is only concerned with pumping out product with volume the only KPI being measured. Process control and supply chain regulation are factors that are expensive to implement and slows the operation down. The low profit margins on this type of product means that high sale volumes are the only way to recoup manufacturing and development costs, unit consistency is not a key measurable so variance is a natural result.

Mid-priced product will usually get more attention paid to quality, consistency and supplier quality assurance. Individual units become serialised with tolerances and key functionals being monitored more closely at various stages along the manufacturing chain. These days it's not uncommon for more expensive items to have each unit's key measurables recorded in a permanent database for future reference. If ever there is a safety-critical product recall the manufacturing team can get detailed information at the push of a button with the ability to identify the build dates and serial numbers of any items likely to be affected before failure actually happens.

Alternatively Bespoke "hand crafted" items can often open up a can of worms when it comes to variance as each item is usually treated as a single build rather than a manufacturing process. Little attention is paid to constancy as each item is hand crafted with the individual parts being fettled and fitted rather than made to conform to a set standard. While the end product is built is built to a higher standard the next item crafted my not be identical to the one preceding it.

I think it would be fair to place most of Sennheiser's products in the "flat" section of the "Bath-Tub" curve. The Sennheiser HE1 might be the exception as an "Artisan" product but you would still have the Sennheiser process controls covering the manufacturing checks along the way. If anyone has got a lazy $85,000 dollars It would be interesting to hear you experiences with the HE1.

LPSPinner.
 
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I am thinking of buying something to replace my (tatty and) old HD580s - how do 600s compare?

I've got both. The 600s are definitely better, but I still love the 580s. I've had them for donkey's years and they're a bit like Tigger's Broom. Most replaceable bits have been replaced over the years. That's one of the advantages of buying Sennheisers.
 
I was so lucky with my pair. There was a thread here ages ago that alerted a few of us to some redundant stock after Zavi went bust and they were knocking out brand new pairs of HD600s in slightly shop-soiled boxes for £99 delivered! The presentation box inside was in perfect condition as were the cans. I don’t use them very often, but I’d hate to be without them. I consider them a real reference point. I have an old ‘Can Opener’ from the 1980s so hooking them up to the outputs of a power amp is easy enough which is useful for diagnostics etc. They really are superb headphones, I can’t imagine wanting/needing more.
Similar for me, mine are bedside with old Sonos controller and Schiit Magni 2 and only get use when I listen to radio at night sometimes, probably similar vintage to yours being late 90s and I paid £80 new. Proper box etc and don’t know where they were made and although I thought about selling them recently I realised as well as still being good they have sentimental value to me from association with my dad. Main headphone listening now is through Meze 109 Pro.
 
Can I assume that the 660S, due to higher price and a higher model number in the 600 series, is better performing than the 600s?

I know there will be personal sonic preferences which may negate that.
 
How do the 660s compare? I see they are on offer at 275 at the moment

If online reviews are to believed Sennheiser tried to find a middle ground between the 650 and 600's. I think they used HD700 drivers in the 660, a deviation from the other two.

When I recently looked at the 660s, before Xmas, it was too much to justify getting one though at £275 they are more in line with the other two.

I subsequently ordered a 58x Jubilee, which on paper at least, does similar things ie. slightly more bass than the 600 and more high treble than the 650. At cost to neutrality?
 
From a tonality POV the 660S, to my ears, is different to the HD600 not necessarily better than it. TBH the differences between this family of headphones (HD580/X, HD600, HD650/6XX and HD660S) is relatively small; they all share that familiar, almost comforting presentation with natural tonality. It's pretty remarkable how similar the HD660S is to the others given it uses HD700 drivers. This illustrates the extent to which the enclosure influences a headphone's presentation as, by all accounts, the HD700 was quite a departure from the 6 series. To my ears the model that's most different in the 6 series is the 58X, this has the most 'V-shaped' voicing (but is still very neutral-sounding compared to most other headphone brands!). From a resolution POV, the HD600 seems to 'scale' better than the others (i.e. it resolves more detail and soundstage as you climb the headphone amp ladder), which is why it remains my favourite.
 
Looking at the Sennheiser website, the 660s are 150 ohm so will be slightly easier to drive than the 600 or 650.
Does that bring anything to the party if they are to be used without a dedicated headphone amp?
 
Looking at the Sennheiser website, the 660s are 150 ohm so will be slightly easier to drive than the 600 or 650.
Does that bring anything to the party if they are to be used without a dedicated headphone amp?
The 660S is perhaps the better choice if you're using an onboard headphone output with restricted voltage reserves. For the same volume setting on such devices the 660S plays around 2 to 3dB louder to my ears. It also sounds a bit clearer and punchier with more grip/control in the bass and crisper dynamics in the mids and highs. With a decent dedicated headphone amp, however, the 600 pulls ahead.
 
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As of now, the HD600 (new) are back in stock again at £239 delivered, or £215.10 if you use code WELCOME10 when checking out.

Just ordered a pair to compare with my HD660S...:rolleyes:

One of them will have to go though...
 
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As of now, the refurbished ones are back in stock at £180 delivered. Wish I had waited a day!

The new ones out of stock..
 
That's a good price.
It surprises me that they get enough returned items to load them into an online shopping catalogue.
 


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