Sennheiser HD 800

[Mynamemynaim]

I have the original HD800 and love them
The only thing I might consider as an upgrade is the Focal Utopia...but really don't spend that long listening to justify the cost
I have modded mine with the 800s type rings in the centre of the speaker cones.
This is a nod to taming any high frequency peaks

 

[Mike Reed]

The only thing I might consider as an upgrade is the Focal Utopia..

Was going for an 800 to replace/augment my 650 but the more I read the more I realised it had a balance nothing like the 650 (which is just so accommodating !). After seeing videos and reading, the cans which were the obvious upgrade to the 650s were the Focal Elears. Spot on ! A similar balance but more transparency, air and frequency extremes; not as dark as the 650s. Also seriously toyed with some Utopias on ebay recently just to see, but like you, am not sure the sonic return, despite being better, would justify that outlay.

I have a Myryad dual momo class A with 2 h/ph outlets, so very easy to A-B, if only to see that both cans have their merits. Tend to use the Senn's for TV and the Focals for music sessions.

 

[Tiago]

Was going for an 800 to replace/augment my 650 but the more I read the more I realised it had a balance nothing like the 650 (which is just so accommodating !). After seeing videos and reading, the cans which were the obvious upgrade to the 650s were the Focal Elears. Spot on ! A similar balance but more transparency, air and frequency extremes; not as dark as the 650s. Also seriously toyed with some Utopias on ebay recently just to see, but like you, am not sure the sonic return, despite being better, would justify that outlay.

I have a Myryad dual momo class A with 2 h/ph outlets, so very easy to A-B, if only to see that both cans have their merits. Tend to use the Senn's for TV and the Focals for music sessions.

From what I read that’s the same people say about the new focal clears.
I really want to try the hd800 for the soundstage. Particularly since I would be using them for gaming too .

 

[Thetiminator]

Such as...?

Well I changed the Phonitor to an EAR HP4 was in a different universe, then I got it fettled which was another big improvement. I tried the Tron which was amazing, maybe very slightly better than the EAR (but not worth the outlay to me), the big Woo Audio (cabt remember the model) was very good but took up too much shelf) and the Cavalli was excellent too. Any of those were leagues better than the Phonitor which I liked a lot when I had it...but was dog rough compared to the aforementioned..

 

[Thetiminator]

From what I read that’s the same people say about the new focal clears.
I really want to try the hd800 for the soundstage. Particularly since I would be using them for gaming too .

I had the Utopias too, which technically were better and in a quick demo you would probably take over the 800’s...but long term they were just boring compared to the 800’s. I don’t ever remember the Utopias making my spine tingle like the 800’s (with better cable and a good amp) did every time I put them on..

 

[Ali T]

Was considering Focals but in the end went for a pair of Dan Clark Audio Ether 2, superb cans. Did a lot of research on head amps but in the end just made a resistor network to drive them directly from my OTL amp which does an excellent job- more power then any head amp will provide.

Amusingly the cans are less sensitive than my speakers.

 

[Mike Reed]

had the Utopias too, which technically were better and in a quick demo you would probably take over the 800’s..

You've had a few can amps !!!! The EAR and Tron ones (and others?) you mentioned above are valved, and when choosing one a couple of years back to replace my 'nothing special' Naim Headline, I kept reading about the synergistic benefits of 800s and valves, which I can well understand, just from received wisdom. Think the Focals are less 'radical' in their presentation and possibly more suited to s/s amps. B.t.w., you mention 800s, so I guess you don't mean the S version, which some say was somewhat emasculated in comparison, albeit more universally acceptable (???)

However, I shall endeavour to find out what 800s are all about this year, as my hearing is impaired, so I think the 800s' 'zing' at the top could prove beneficial. I'm also hooked on imaging/holography/spacial exaggeration that the 800s are known for. My 650s are simply a lovely comfort blanket compared to the Elears, but I'm aware of the tonal departure that the 800 series represented.

 

[Thetiminator]

Yes I had the 800S’s too and they were exactly that...more universally acceptable, but just didn’t have the magic of the originals. The originals were a victim of their own success really...so many didn’t use the right amp (or cable) with them and they got the reputation of being bright, no other headphone I had was so ruthlessly revealing of its partnering equipment. Interestingly I had a demo of the Stax 009’s with the £5k amp thing...and my 800’s made them sound anaemic...

Ooo my second favourite pair of headphones is another left field one...the Ether C’s...not far off the 800’s and a lot more forgiving of partnering equipment..

 

[Arkless Electronics]

Different headphone amps make no difference to the sound with cans such as these beyond very "characterful" amps colourations. They are incredibly easy to drive and all competently designed accurate amps will sound the same in this case. With my similar HD580's I can't really tell any difference between the headphone outputs on my PC, laptop, CD player and an "ultimate" class A headphone amp I made for myself is only very slightly better... you would have to switch from this to one of the "lesser" amps quickly to notice any difference. The idea of the cable making any difference is laughable!

 

[Timo_F]

I don’t have any experience with the Mojo, but I can confirm that the Hugo 2 drives the HD800s rather well. I compared Hugo 2 and Naim V1-DAC, and I preferred the former. I am tempted though to try an RME ADI-2 in my study — any user reports here? Intuitively, I agree with earlier posters who question that the Mojo can do the HD800s justice...

 

[ToTo Man]

Different headphone amps make no difference to the sound with cans such as these beyond very "characterful" amps colourations. They are incredibly easy to drive and all competently designed accurate amps will sound the same in this case. With my similar HD580's I can't really tell any difference between the headphone outputs on my PC, laptop, CD player and an "ultimate" class A headphone amp I made for myself is only very slightly better... you would have to switch from this to one of the "lesser" amps quickly to notice any difference. The idea of the cable making any difference is laughable!

I usually agree with your opinions, Jez, but this is one of those times I have to take issue with your comment about all competently-designed headphone amps sounding the same! As just one recent example, I auditioned an Astell&Kern SR25 and there was a positively HUGE difference in the way my HD600 sounded on its single-ended and differential output. AFAIK the HD600 isn't that much more difficult to drive than your HD580 (300Ω and 104dB/1Vrms), however the soundstage was narrow and congested on the former yet stretched out and spacious on the latter. Even my totally-not-interested-in-anything-relating-to-hifi Mum could hear the difference!

This is consistent with what I generally observe with single-ended and differential headphone amps. All of my headphones, even the super-sensitive in-ear-monitors that require less than 1/10th of a volt to reach over 100dB SPL, sound freer, more open/spacious and effortless when driven differentially. The differential output provides twice the output voltage, but I don't think this is what's responsible for the difference as the single-ended outputs of said amps still had more than enough voltage to drive my headphones plenty loud. Unless there's some other magic involved, it must be at least part due to the elimination of the common ground between the left and right channels.

PS - I do agree that there are headphone amps out there that add character/colouration to the sound with non-linear frequency responses and added harmonic distortions, just as there are loudspeaker amps. Nothing wrong with folks choosing one of these options if they prefer its 'synergy' with their chosen headphone, though it probably wouldn't be my default approach.

 

[Arkless Electronics]

I usually agree with your opinions, Jez, but this is one of those times I have to take issue with your comment about all competently-designed headphone amps sounding the same! As just one recent example, I auditioned an Astell&Kern SR25 and there was a positively HUGE difference in the way my HD600 sounded on its single-ended and differential output. AFAIK the HD600 isn't that much more difficult to drive than your HD580 (300Ω and 104dB/1Vrms), however the soundstage was narrow and congested on the former yet stretched out and spacious on the latter. Even my totally-not-interested-in-anything-relating-to-hifi Mum could hear the difference!

This is consistent with what I generally observe with single-ended and differential headphone amps. All of my headphones, even the super-sensitive in-ear-monitors that require less than 1/10th of a volt to reach over 100dB SPL, sound freer, more open/spacious and effortless when driven differentially. The differential output provides twice the output voltage, but I don't think this is what's responsible for the difference as the single-ended outputs of said amps still had more than enough voltage to drive my headphones plenty loud. Unless there's some other magic involved, it must be at least part due to the elimination of the common ground between the left and right channels.

PS - I do agree that there are headphone amps out there that add character/colouration to the sound with non-linear frequency responses and added harmonic distortions, just as there are loudspeaker amps. Nothing wrong with folks choosing one of these options if they prefer its 'synergy' with their chosen headphone, though it probably wouldn't be my default approach.

Well I'm afraid I couldn't disagree more strongly with EVERYTHING both you and everyone else in this thread has said. Differential just means bridged. It definitely will not make any difference at all. The ONLY time any differences will be noticed between headphone amps is when they are deliberately very coloured. My suspicion is that all/most of the headphone amps people really like are the most inaccurate ones and what they like is the euphonic "rose tinted" colourations. As I said I literally can't tell any difference between all the headphone driving sources I have here. Non at all. If I use my high end headphone amp which if I was to sell them would be £1k ish I struggle to hear any improvement over plugging the cans into the socket on my PC... very slightly "crisper" and more "defined" I guess but it is such a small difference you need to quickly switch from one to the other to hear it. I have mentioned this a few times before and on those occasions some other Sennheiser users have piped up to agree with this!
I don't really recognise the concept of sound stage and spaciousness in the context of headphones and personally I never use cans to listen to music. I really don't like cans. Period. ATM all my "TV" viewing (no TV but I download box sets etc) is via headphones as no speakers connected to PC but I would prefer to listen to music even on a set of Wharfedale Diamonds rather than ANY headphone.

 

[Joe P]

I'm a Stax guy now, but I had and still really like the HD 800. The peak at 6 kHz is a bit overblown in my view. It's not half as bad as people say it is, but if it bugs you best to look elsewhere.

The area where the HD 800 cans are still tops is soundstaging. I’m not by any means a soundstaging nut, but the HD 800 cans are better than any I tried at getting the musicians out of my head to some space around it.

Even the Stax cans I have now that I bought in preference to the HD 800 don’t do that as well.

I don’t know about other cables as I never tried any, but the HD 800 cans do need a good amp.

Joe

 

[Tiago]

Well I'm afraid I couldn't disagree more strongly with EVERYTHING both you and everyone else in this thread has said. Differential just means bridged. It definitely will not make any difference at all. The ONLY time any differences will be noticed between headphone amps is when they are deliberately very coloured. My suspicion is that all/most of the headphone amps people really like are the most inaccurate ones and what they like is the euphonic "rose tinted" colourations. As I said I literally can't tell any difference between all the headphone driving sources I have here. Non at all. If I use my high end headphone amp which if I was to sell them would be £1k ish I struggle to hear any improvement over plugging the cans into the socket on my PC... very slightly "crisper" and more "defined" I guess but it is such a small difference you need to quickly switch from one to the other to hear it. I have mentioned this a few times before and on those occasions some other Sennheiser users have piped up to agree with this!
I don't really recognise the concept of sound stage and spaciousness in the context of headphones and personally I never use cans to listen to music. I really don't like cans. Period. ATM all my "TV" viewing (no TV but I download box sets etc) is via headphones as no speakers connected to PC but I would prefer to listen to music even on a set of Wharfedale Diamonds rather than ANY headphone.

Can i ask why do you not like headphones?

 

[Arkless Electronics]

Can i ask why do you not like headphones?

Too "inside your head" and I REALLY miss that 'sound coming definitely from a distance in front of me' perspective. Another big factor is the lack of physicality to the sound as the volume is ramped up. No sense of "feeling the power" of the sound, especially the bass, of the "OMG another bass transient like that and an ornaments gonna fall of that shelf" (exaggeration to get point across!). No soundstage or imaging present at all in the way we know it from real live sound or from speakers. It's all just either kinda left, right or in your head.... if that makes any sense!

Don't get me wrong my HD580's sound very good in most "hi fi ways". They have effortlessly extended bass, pretty low colouration etc etc and I find them perfectly enjoyable for watching Star Trek the original series, which is my current box set (the bleeping and whirring sounds of The Enterprise are if anything enhanced by the "in yer head" effect!) but no matter how good they are they still "sound like headphones"....(obvs!) so if I want to enjoy music the main system goes on.

 

[jimification]

Thetiminator: I'm a bit perplexed that you say HD800's aren't bright, or that people are just using them with the wrong amps. As Mr Arkless said above they are actually reasonably easy to drive and I don't think different amps would change their fundamental character *that* much....I thought it was pretty universally acknowledged (and measured) that they have quite a peak around 5K. Are you saying that's not correct?

In my own case I find them extremely impressive but (after owning them twice, the last time with Sennheiser's own HDVA600 amp) I just don't get on with them for longer term listening. I'm currently using HD650's, which I enjoy much more, but it's horses for courses and I consider people that enjoy the HD800 to be lucky because it's a pretty spectacular headphone if it floats your boat.

 

[Tiago]

Too "inside your head" and I REALLY miss that 'sound coming definitely from a distance in front of me' perspective. Another big factor is the lack of physicality to the sound as the volume is ramped up. No sense of "feeling the power" of the sound, especially the bass, of the "OMG another bass transient like that and an ornaments gonna fall of that shelf" (exaggeration to get point across!). No soundstage or imaging present at all in the way we know it from real live sound or from speakers. It's all just either kinda left, right or in your head.... if that makes any sense!

Don't get me wrong my HD580's sound very good in most "hi fi ways". They have effortlessly extended bass, pretty low colouration etc etc and I find them perfectly enjoyable for watching Star Trek the original series, which is my current box set (the bleeping and whirring sounds of The Enterprise are if anything enhanced by the "in yer head" effect!) but no matter how good they are they still "sound like headphones"....(obvs!) so if I want to enjoy music the main system goes on.

I feel this too, regarding the ''feeling'' of sound, especially bass as you mention. But lockdown + Kids + wife+ living in a 2 bedroom flat, kind of eliminates listening to any music in the main system (at the moment just some KEF q350 + denon dm41) at appreciable loudness. This is the reason i was considering getting some Hd800/Hd800s. Mostly to experience the famous soundstage. Plus i also tend to game, not FPS lately though, so I thought i would kill 2 birds with one stone.

 

[evand]

No soundstage or imaging present at all in the way we know it from real live sound or from speakers. It's all just either kinda left, right or in your head.... if that makes any sense!

Ditto, I've gone from a decade of SCM100ASLT's in a treated room to HD800 until my extension is built. Good as cans can sound, it's nowhere near the same experience as a good stereo setup in an appropriate acoustic environment. Soon as my ATC's are unpacked that'll be the end of me and cans.

 

[dave charlton]

In my own case I find them extremely impressive but (after owning them twice, the last time with Sennheiser's own HDVA600 amp) I just don't get on with them for longer term listening. I'm currently using HD650's, which I enjoy much more, but it's horses for courses and I consider people that enjoy the HD800 to be lucky because it's a pretty spectacular headphone if it floats your boat.

I've been using 800's for a few months (after being a long term 600 user). They did impress right away but I don't think about that now. They're just a great tool for listening to music.

 

[Thetiminator]

Different headphone amps make no difference to the sound with cans such as these beyond very "characterful" amps colourations. They are incredibly easy to drive and all competently designed accurate amps will sound the same in this case. With my similar HD580's I can't really tell any difference between the headphone outputs on my PC, laptop, CD player and an "ultimate" class A headphone amp I made for myself is only very slightly better... you would have to switch from this to one of the "lesser" amps quickly to notice any difference. The idea of the cable making any difference is laughable!

If there’s no real difference between the pc output and your ‘Ultimare’ amp I’d seriously consider a rename.
And you can’t compare the 580’s to the 800’s, they’re in a totally different league (I had the 580’s years ago). The 800’s are at the top of the tree (alongside Stax’s) for really transparent headphones....listen to your ‘Ultimate’ amp through them and you’ll hear a massive difference (at least I really hope you do).