droodzilla
pfm Member
Christ, I just took a squint. Some real proto-fascist ****wits on there. Makes PFM look like a bastion of sanity.
Scottish Politics
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PsB
Citizen of Nowhere™
“Theology” is a bit OTT, but it’s good to see Brexiters starting to realize the political dimension of the EU. 20-30 years too late, but never mind: the last 4 years have not been totally for naught if they finally accept it’s not just a common market or FTArea.
Your second paragraph is amusing, but let’s not argue about it: we’ll see the consequences soon enough (2021-2022). My bet is on the EU and euro ploughing on, much to your chagrin.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
Interestingly, Andrew Marr chose to link Welsh public health measures exercised on their border with Manchester’s open defiance of Johnson’s orders with lastly Scottish independence. It seems to me that Johnson and his government need no lessons in creating revulsion. When Brexit fully lands in January, it’ll be fascinating to see how the regions in his own fiefdom react.
eternumviti
Insufficient privileges to reply.
Oh come on now, that's absurd, the political dimension of the EU is exactly why there are Brexiters, and why there is Brexit. It is the political aspect of the EU which has infuriated people like me for 40 years.
As regards the euro, you may well be right. It will plough a deep furrow through the economies of the south, driven, as it always has been, by grim-faced political determination. It's either that, or the German voters (and Constitutional Court) accepting the concepts of transferunion, fiscal centralisation, and political federalisation.
The EU has always used a crisis to advance its political agenda. It isn't even averse to creating one - the half-cocked nature of EMU itself has always been a crisis either in waiting, or actually happening. A crisis to which there's only a single solution - more EU. There's no going back. It's written in the EU DNA. Ever. Closer. Union.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
‘It’s in the DNA’ - that reads like a 90s budget hifi advert. Then of course the inevitable plight of the Greeks. My favourite though is that Europe ‘used a crisis to advance its agenda’. It seems impossible to come up with a more rank opportunist than Johnson, Trump aside, in politics. If anyone has the reverse Midas touch its Johnson. All he can offer now is toilet paper shortages.
eternumviti
Insufficient privileges to reply.
Yebbut, what about Johnson, Trump, Orban, Kim Jong un?
Irrelevant wotaboutism.
Irrelevant wotaboutism.
PsB
Citizen of Nowhere™
I trust you savour the irony of writing all that in a thread about Scottish politics.
eternumviti
Insufficient privileges to reply.
PsB
Citizen of Nowhere™
"All I signed up for was a common market", etc.
You don't have to perform genetic analysis. It's written in the preamble of the first (1957) treaty the UK eventually signed up to, after a referendum IIRC.
PsB
Citizen of Nowhere™
Plenty of lessons to go round for everyone from the Greek crisis, including some that could be relevant for Scotland one day.
But based on the little I know of Scotland (one aunt in Kirkcudbrightshire, and one daughter now working in Edinburgh), the Scots strike me as a very different lot from the Greeks and unlikely to make the same mistakes.
eternumviti
Insufficient privileges to reply.
Sure it was. You're sort of saying exactly what I'm saying in a slightly different way. The Treaty of Rome is the DNA of the EU.
What you're failing to acknowledge is the systematic campaign of obfuscation and downright lies engaged in from the very first, conceptual genesis of the ECSC by Macmillan and Heath. This is a matter of record, and it is neatly encapsulated in Ted Heath's words to Parliament in 1971, "Joining the community does not entail a loss of national identity or an erosion of essential national sovereignty..."
Look up the Werner Report of the same year.
You know all this. You're also perfectly aware that the concepts of 'ever closer union' seemed very far away and abstract in 1970s Britain. Very few people would have been able to visualise them as we can, with all the benefits of hindsight and experience.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
We was diddled with a dodgy Panamanian investment. It was 1698.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
The Irish are thick and in the words of the rhyme, Taffy was a Welshman, Taffy was a thief. Taffy came to my house and stole a piece of beef.
Barrymagrec
pfm Member
You sure? Edinburgh is known as the 'Athens of the north'..
That`s because they both have chaps wandering about in skirts.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
But we don’t have the big red pom-poms on our shoes.
Seanm
pfm Member
I’ve noticed that people who never usually have trouble avoiding this kind of thing tend to have a blind spot with regard to Greece. Very hard to maintain a sentimental affection for the EU without it, I guess.
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