Scottish Politics

[TheDecameron]

I seriously doubt the SNP is socialist. I see them as like Blair's Labour Party, without the wars. We're talking Ed Milliband, at best.

I like Ed Miliband!

 

[Seanm]

Labour's leader in Scotland is a Corbyn acolyte who has made even less of an impact on voters than his inspirational master. If Nelson Mandela himself was in charge of Labour in Scotland it would little difference, UK based political parties are irrelevant to an increasing majority of Scots.

Exactly - so why lay this at Leonard’s feet? It’s a disaster decades in the making. Murray seemingly desperate to hang the corpse. I didn’t understand any of it until Nandy’s gaffe. That really brought it home. Colonial mindset, absolutely ingrained in the party, even Corbyn showed no appetite for taking it on.

 

[TheDecameron]

An incredibly simple comparison with what else passes for a party leader or indeed party in the UK might clarify matters somewhat.

You underestimate Doulas Ross at your peril ( if you’re a traveller).

 

[SteveG]

Exactly - so why lay this at Leonard’s feet?

In Leonard's defence he's merely a non-entity, which therefore makes him a massive improvement on his predecessors.

Kezia Dugdale was truely awful (I can't fathom how anyone could have considered her as a party leader). Even she may have been better than Jim Murphy though - given how bad a choice he was I was surprised he only managed to lose Labour 40 of their 41 Westminster seats (including his own). You've got to think his choice was someone having a laugh and wondering who'd be the worst possible candidate to lead Labour in Scotland.

 

[waxkinglyrical]

Alexander Boris dePfffll Lukashenko Johnson and his new rented branch office in Scotland-

Next to the railway, about 80ft beneath Nicola Sturgeon’s office window, presumably so she can see it. Hilarious.

Almost as good as the 1980s graffiti in Hillhead, Glasgow proclaiming that “Woy Jenkins is a ranker”

 

[Brian]

So we’re all agreed Labour is shit in Scotland. How does that translate to the tories agreeing to a referendum?

So Labour doesn’t understand Scotland, well, Scots nationalists don’t understand the tories. You just think you do.

This is a bunch of entitled toffs the like I’ve never seen before. The SNP can win by a landslide next year and it won’t make a dent in Johnson unless he sees personal and party advantage in it. No matter the pressure and the howling, he will simply shrug and say ‘go do one’. How many tories should been sacked even just recently and he’s just said ‘up yours’? He was born into a huge sense of entitlement, he really doesn’t give a shit as long as the tories are re-elected.

How is the SNP going to get the tories to allow a referendum? Or do some of you think Sturgeon will just go ahead, which won’t go down well with the efforts to have the EU turn a blind eye to their unbreakable rules for joining?

 

[droodzilla]

I like Ed Miliband!

I do too, and I wish he's had the courage of his soft-left convictions when he was party leader; the 2015 election might have gone very differently if he had. Unfortunately, he lacked courage and gave too much credit to the political "insights" of Ed Balls, and the like. Like Corbyn, he was briefed against by the right of the party from day one but at least they were more subtle about it back then.

 

[gassor]

Exactly - so why lay this at Leonard’s feet? It’s a disaster decades in the making. Murray seemingly desperate to hang the corpse. I didn’t understand any of it until Nandy’s gaffe. That really brought it home. Colonial mindset, absolutely ingrained in the party, even Corbyn showed no appetite for taking it on.

Because Labour is trailing the Tories and is down to one MP on his watch. The most enlightened response you get here to the leader of Labour in Scotland is Richard Who?

 

[eternumviti]

Hugh liked it though...he gave it a like.

Blimey. Must be an ironic/sarcastic kind of like though. Deffo not a like like.

 

[I.D.C.]

Living on a Island SNP brought in reduced ferry travel. Fuel was always more expensive than on the mainland now it's even. Free prescriptions. Free education. Small businesses depending on income free from rates though garbage lift up has to be paid at £60 a month. SNP dont get everything right. The fact is in my lifetime ( 61 years ) the SNP have done more for me than Labour or the Tories in my lifetime. It has nothing to do with Republicanism the queen will still be the monarch. It has nothing to do with hating England, Wales, N Ireland. It has everything to do with Westminster not understanding anything outside the London bubble. Local people understand local needs England would do better having regional parliaments especially north of Birmingham. If Scotland costs the uk so much to subsidise why do unionist MP's fight so much to keep Scotland. Boris Johnson is the icing on the cake for those wanting independence such as myself. We can still all be good mates we just want to govern ourselves.

 

[eternumviti]

The SNP are doing a good job l I have to say. They are gaining more support by the day, yes there have been some shortcomings but nothing major. However there are 3 main problems facing the SNP as I see it. First, there is no-one near the calibre of Sturgeon in the party and she won't go on forever. Second, the SNP is fractured along lines of pursuing a second ref immediately or waiting till the time is right. Broadly those who want a ref now also support Salmond and want him back in the party. There is no love lost between Salmond and Sturgeon and their supporters could split the party. Salmond has already successfully sued the party.

Finally, there is the question that never gets discussed by SNP fanboys; the finance for an independent Scotland. But like Brexit, economics seems to be a secondary consideration

So what constitutes a 'good job'? Is it just a matter of increasing their support, or is there something more fundamental?

Perhaps if you followed what was happening up here it would be apparent to you.

Please tell me what this mystical thing that us happening is. It obviously is something beyond the multifaceted disasters in education (both secondary and Higher), health and policing. Is it Scotland's extraordinary success in reducing dependence on drugs and alcohol, perhaps, or something far more mundane like its great leaps in the reduction of its budget deficit?

 

[Dozey]

Not always.

In the 1975 EEC referendum, the SNP campaigned on leaving the EEC.

The SNP and its supporters aligned themselves with other notable groups such as the National Front, The Communist Party of Great Britain, Ulster Unionist Party, DUP, Official Sinn Féin, Provisional Sin Féin and Plaid. Some of the older members here quite possibly will have voted.

Nearly 15m (68%) in England voted ‘yes’ to remain in the EEC versus 1.3m (58%) in Scotland.

Point is, things have changed and can change again.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_United_Kingdom_European_Communities_membership_referendum

I was thinking more of the Auld Alliance in the 14th Century and the links with the protestants in Holland in the 16th century.

 

[TheDecameron]

..

I was thinking more of the Auld Alliance in the 14th Century and the links with the protestants in Holland in the 16th century.

There was too many of them Huguenots comin in. I blame that Catherine de Medici.

 

[gassor]

So what constitutes a 'good job'? Is it just a matter of increasing their support, or is there something more fundamental?



Please tell me what this mystical thing that us happening is. It obviously is something beyond the multifaceted disasters in education (both secondary and Higher), health and policing. Is it Scotland's extraordinary success in reducing dependence on drugs and alcohol, perhaps, or something far more mundane like its great leaps in the reduction of its budget deficit?

It's having a leader who is a decent person who is able to convey empathy with those in unfortunate situations. She is also a very able politician who communicates well. Then there is the mistrust of Westminister which it seems will be controlled by the Tory party till the cows come home. In addition, it is about a perception that there is a different political culture in Scotland which taps into a more collectivist outlook and defines the country as a separate entity from England. It is about the rising wave of nationalism around the globe. Issues like you mention come and go but above everything it is about the trust that people have in the First Minister. For me it is also about being able to, as the Brexiteers did, ignore the economic impact of splitting away from your main market.

 

[jackbarron]

If Scotland spearheads independence from the UK I might possibly move there. I have been a Labour supporter nearly all of my life. However, they are pro-Union. I also don't have time for Labour after Corbyn deliberately messed up the Remain argument. I really regret voting for him.

Jack

 

[sean99]

If Scotland spearheads independence from the UK I might possibly move there. I have been a Labour supporter nearly all of my life. However, they are pro-Union. I also don't have time for Labour after Corbyn deliberately messed up the Remain argument. I really regret voting for him.

Jack

They might implement a points system and a "hostile environment" toward British refugees.

 

[eternumviti]

It's having a leader who is a decent person who is able to convey empathy with those in unfortunate situations. She is also a very able politician who communicates well. Then there is the mistrust of Westminister which it seems will be controlled by the Tory party till the cows come home. In addition, it is about a perception that there is a different political culture in Scotland which taps into a more collectivist outlook and defines the country as a separate entity from England. It is about the rising wave of nationalism around the globe. Issues like you mention come and go but above everything it is about the trust that people have in the First Minister. For me it is also about being able to, as the Brexiteers did, ignore the economic impact of splitting away from your main market.

Well, what can I say?

 

[richardg]

If Scotland spearheads independence from the UK I might possibly move there. I have been a Labour supporter nearly all of my life. However, they are pro-Union. I also don't have time for Labour after Corbyn deliberately messed up the Remain argument. I really regret voting for him.

Jack

So you would not vote Labour because they are pro-union?

 

[Brian]

I was thinking more of the Auld Alliance in the 14th Century and the links with the protestants in Holland in the 16th century.

Yes, discussing nationalism seriously with nationalists does tend to be a waste of time and effort.

There is going to be a lot of angst among the nationalists between now and at least 2024. It's going to be a painful time for some.

 

[Brian]

If Scotland spearheads independence from the UK I might possibly move there. I have been a Labour supporter nearly all of my life. However, they are pro-Union. I also don't have time for Labour after Corbyn deliberately messed up the Remain argument. I really regret voting for him.

Jack

Why does Scotland have to be independent for you to want to move there? It's a lovely place now. Don't you like Scotland enough to live there while it is part of the UK?

Anyway, let's hope we don't move to the same area, Jack.