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Scottish Politics

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One Prime Minister, Margaret Hilda Thatcher, inadvertently brought about the reopening of Scotland’s Parliament after a 292 year gap and another is about to bring about the dissolution of the Union completely.
 
Political institutions should have suitable premises. Here’s the oldest Parliament building still in existence in the British Isles-

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the facade, later-

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and the presence of the French government next door-

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Good Afternoon All,

Currently watching Nicola Sturgeon at Holyrood. I share Ruth Davison's incredulity that after what 18months we are now stalled on some documents for the Salmond enquiry for legal reasons. Doesn't give rise to any suspicion that there is something to be hidden at all.

Regards

Richard
 
Is our nodding Nicky not getting a little fibby?

It perhaps accounts for why this thread has suddenly gone quiet.
 
I'm very much against Scottish independence. But that's because I live in England. If I lived in Scotland, I would vote for independence. Scotland, like Ireland, wants to be a modern, progressive country while England (and to a lesser extent, Wales) has decided to hanker after the past. I wonder what will happen to English politics post Scottish independence. Something will have to change.
 
I'm very much against Scottish independence. But that's because I live in England. If I lived in Scotland, I would vote for independence. Scotland, like Ireland, wants to be a modern, progressive country while England (and to a lesser extent, Wales) has decided to hanker after the past. I wonder what will happen to English politics post Scottish independence. Something will have to change.

I reminded of all the Brexiteers screaming "VASSALAGE" at the slightest inclination of any accommodation with the EU, and how the UK should never agree to such a thing. Then we compare how the Westminster Tories treat Scotland ( and frankly most of the rest of the country that's not the home counties) and vassalage describes it perfectly. Hypocrisy on a grand scale.
 
My dad is 6' under.

Tell me, if you will, what the nonsense is that you say I've posted on the thread, and which you failed to refute.
 
My dad is 6' under.

Tell me, if you will, what the nonsense is that you say I've posted on the thread, and which you failed to refute.
You’re largely wasting your time. There are no economic grounds for Scottish Independence, it is all based on emotion and nationalism.

Not a single supporter of Scottish independence on pfm has made a valid case for it, they haven’t described how they would deal with a currency, how they would deal with putting in place a border, funding of essential public services, their expectation of when Scotland will be allowed to join the EU. They can’t even answer how the SNP is going to get the tories to agree to another referendum so soon after they lost the last one.

They haven’t been able to explain why it is a disaster for the UK to vote for leaving its biggest market and making itself poorer while supporting just that for Scotland. My guess is some independence supporters are personally insulated from the economics of it.
 
They haven’t been able to explain why it is a disaster for the UK to vote for leaving its biggest market and making itself poorer while supporting just that for Scotland.

The EU is obviously a vastly bigger marketplace than a declining Little England, and I fully understand why Scotland would want to distance itself from the Trumpian fascism sweeping the rest of the UK. Brexit is bringing everything so many of us feared; we are hurtling towards ‘no deal’, the government is eroding human rights, civil liberties and democratic accountability on a pretty much weekly basis, e.g. within the last month the Overseas Operations Bill, CHIS Bill, the overturned Food Standards Amendment to the Agriculture Bill to open the door to US corporate exploitation of our food markets etc etc etc. Everything we said would happen is quietly playing out behind the smokescreen of covid 19. Why the hell would Scotland want to be shackled to this corrupt alt-right kleptocracy when there was no mandate whatsoever for it up there? It’s not even as if we even have any credible opposition in the UK as a whole, Labour are just spineless and useless, so the downward spiral of England is clear. The public school con-artist spivery won; they successfully conned the dickheads and they now get to dismantle the UK state and turn the country into a low-wage low-tax hell hole for all but their oligarch class.
 
All points that I've made here repeatedly, Brian. I'm trying to establish why Colin L claims that they are nonsense, and I'm waiting for him to point me to the refutations that he and others have apparently made. Nada.

I do however agree with him that brexit is emotional too, though I also think that there is also very much more to it than that.

The thing that you didn't mention is that Scotland has an infinitely greater degree of self-determination within the Union now than it has ever had in the 300 years. As it currently stands it has its own government, which has considerable and increasing power devolved to it by Westminster. Its also has 59 of the 650 seats in Westminster, and voting power over Acts of Parliament that affect all of the UK, not just Scotland. It will have infinitely less power if/when it is accepted into the European Union. It will be compelled to join the Euro, which will remove all monetary decision-making powers, and we must assume that by then the EU, if it survives, will have absorbed fiscal powers into Brussels, which will leave Holyrood as the rough equivalent of a County Council, with a mere 6 of the 711 odd seats at Strasbourg, where they will exercise precisely no power whatsoever. They might draw those 6 MEPs from the finest, strongest and fittest rugby players and caber tossers in the Scottish Republic, but they won't collectively be strong enough to hold up the size of the begging bowl that will be required.
 
The EU is obviously a vastly bigger marketplace than a declining Little England, and I fully understand why Scotland would want to distance itself from the Trumpian fascism sweeping the rest of the UK. Brexit is bringing everything so many of us feared; we are hurtling towards ‘no deal’, the government is eroding human rights, civil liberties and democratic accountability on a pretty much weekly basis, e.g. within the last month the Overseas Operations Bill, CHIS Bill, the overturned Food Standards Amendment to the Agriculture Bill to open the door to US corporate exploitation of our food markets etc etc etc. Everything we said would happen is quietly playing out behind the smokescreen of covid 19. Why the hell would Scotland want to be shackled to this corrupt alt-right kleptocracy when there was no mandate whatsoever for it up there? It’s not even as if we even have any credible opposition in the UK as a whole, Labour are just spineless and useless, so the downward spiral of England is clear. The public school con-artist spivery won; they successfully conned the dickheads and they now get to dismantle the UK state and turn the country into a low-wage low-tax hell hole for all but their oligarch class.
Yes, I understand all of that but it doesn’t address the practicalities of what I’m asking. I too would like to see the end of the tories and I get why Scots want that, but having decided to vote for independence I’m asking them to explain the plan for dealing with the consequences of leaving the UK. They don’t answer because they don’t have a plan, they haven’t thought it through, they don’t even acknowledge the issues that would need to be faced and overcome let alone offer up solutions. It should sound familiar...
 
All points that I've made here repeatedly, Brian. I'm trying to establish why Colin L claims that they are nonsense, and I'm waiting for him to point me to the refutations that he and others have apparently made. Nada.

I do however agree with him that brexit is emotional too, though I also think that there is also very much more to it than that.

The thing that you didn't mention is that Scotland has an infinitely greater degree of self-determination within the Union now than it has ever had in the 300 years. As it currently stands it has its own government, which has considerable and increasing power devolved to it by Westminster. Its also has 59 of the 650 seats in Westminster, and voting power over Acts of Parliament that affect all of the UK, not just Scotland. It will have infinitely less power if/when it is accepted into the European Union. It will be compelled to join the Euro, which will remove all monetary decision-making powers, and we must assume that by then the EU, if it survives, will have absorbed fiscal powers into Brussels, which will leave Holyrood as the rough equivalent of a County Council, with a mere 6 of the 711 odd seats at Strasbourg, where they will exercise precisely no power whatsoever. They might draw those 6 MEPs from the finest, strongest and fittest rugby players and caber tossers in the Scottish Republic, but they won't collectively be strong enough to hold up the size of the begging bowl that will be required.
Colin likes to talk about uncomfortable truths and there are many being ignored by the nationalists. Emotion is very powerful.
 
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