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Scottish Politics

Discussion in 'off topic' started by droodzilla, Aug 19, 2020.

  1. Brian

    Brian Eating fat, staying slim

    Forever the hypocrite, Hugh.

    Have you made any progress on that economic case for independence?
  2. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

  3. Spike55

    Spike55 Doesn't get out enough.

    Thank you, more elegantly put than the reply I was tempted to write. ;)
  4. JensenHealey

    JensenHealey pfm Member

    Can anyone see the irony here? If Scotland wishes for the 'autonomy and sovereignty which comes with being a nation state' then why are Scots Nats so keen on rejoining the EU if they get away from the UK? It is a plain bonkers argument.
    eternumviti and Brian like this.
  5. SteveG

    SteveG pfm Member

    Only to a UKIP or Tory supporter that thinks we gave away our sovereignty by being part of the EU.
  6. Brian

    Brian Eating fat, staying slim

    Never ending psychodrama.

    Another deflection, Hugh. Still waiting on you providing an economic case for Scots independence. If you think there isn’t one, that there will be economic damage but it’s worth it, just say so. Then we can move on to why you believe whatever it is will be worth the damage.

    My position is I prefer the UK to remain intact. You may prefer independence for Scotland, I don’t and I’m as entitled to my point of view as you are. I dislike nationalism, I think it causes problems wherever it appears, you’re entitled to disagree, it’s not an issue for me.

    Now what is it about that pov which caused you to write post #611? Be as insulting as you wish, I don’t ever report posts and you’ll get a ‘like’ from all of the nationalists.
  7. Colin L

    Colin L LOU Attitude Adjuster

    You just can’t help yourself can you Brian?
    Spike55 likes this.
  8. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    It’s like the poles of a magnet- Scottish voters are as strongly attracted to being a member state of the EU as they are repelled by the the strain of Westminster government we’ve all had to endure for the last ten years. It’s why I said Boris Johnson is going to do all the work for the SNP Government in delivering Independence. I mean, just look at the voting pattern for EU membership and the SNP in Westminster. No other political party has won this size of majority since the early part of the 20th Century.
    Spike55 likes this.
  9. Brian

    Brian Eating fat, staying slim

    Given the previous 2 posts from Spike what else should I expect? You should understand, Colin, given how you react and post a lot of the time.

    I would much prefer a proper discussion about Scottish independence without the angst but it doesn’t seem possible to have that with supporters of independence.

    My suspicion is those supporting independence are unable to explain the benefits because the reality is they will make Scotland poorer. Ironically, some of those individuals have spent over 4 years slaughtering ‘brexiteers’ for voting for exactly the same thing but UK wide. To say it’s hypocritical is an understatement.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020
  10. JensenHealey

    JensenHealey pfm Member

    I am neither. And I voted remain - despite the many and manifest stupidities of the EU. But the idea that membership of the EU would retain sovereignty for Scotland is odd thinking. 'Ever Closer Union' is the mantra of the EU, still today.

    Euro currency would be mandatory once some bendable rules on convergence are 'met' (and what currency would be used in the interim?) So an independent state of Scotland will have limited control (nor much say) on economic policy. Interest rates set by Brussels, debt ceilings set by Brussels, fishery policy and waters controlled by Brussels, state aid rules controlled by Brussels. Scotland already has higher personal taxation and soon there would be direct Brussels taxation to a Brussels exchequer - it is coming. What sort of independence is there in all this?

    There are grounds, I believe, to make an independent Scottish economy work - and probably better than joining the EU. Free trade agreements are a much more flexible basis than full membership.

    The new age of technology can deal with oil being less important. Wind and water power can go a long way in a small population with virtually no heavy industry.
    The economy would have to be based on Whisky, Tourism, Agriculture, Academia, Fishing and some financial services. Unless it develops a high value 'something' (rather like Switzerland with precision engineering at various scales) it could remain a pleasant but not wealthy place to be. But the unemployment levels in areas like Glasgow must be addressed somehow.
    eternumviti likes this.
  11. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    Sounds like youve answered your own question.
  12. Colin L

    Colin L LOU Attitude Adjuster

    Scotland has world leading design and engineering capability and is a major source of precision engineered products to the global oil industry. Also, to a lesser degree in renewables.

    The route for Scotland is EEA / EFTA and see how it develops from there. Currency-wise that’s a toughie and I suspect it could be a Scottish pound explicitly shadowing Sterling or the Euro.

    As a member of the Scotland would be middle-rank state in terms of GDP, so why won’t that work as an independent nation?
    I.D.C., TheDecameron and KrisW like this.
  13. Seeker_UK

    Seeker_UK I had amnesia once or twice...

  14. ff1d1l

    ff1d1l pfm Member

    You miss the point that a healthy majority of Scots want to be in the EU, and bitterly resent being dragged out against their will.
    I think, and Scottish fishies can confirm this possibly, the issue is as much about independence from imposed, damaging and incompetent English unelected rule, as being a global independent nation.
    kendo, JimmyB and Spike55 like this.
  15. Brian

    Brian Eating fat, staying slim

    Great post, very informative. :rolleyes:

    I await with much interest confirmation that, as you say, it is largely about escaping from the English.
  16. JimmyB

    JimmyB pfm Member

    I take it nobody actually went and read any of the info on the website I linked to?

    Plenty on economics, currency options etc etc.

    Have a read and let's then have a reasoned discussion as this thread is pretty purile stuff
    TheDecameron likes this.
  17. Brian

    Brian Eating fat, staying slim

    Actually I did look at it and I’ve looked again this morning. It’s interesting but I do other things too so I haven’t finished reading it yet. If I’m going to bother I need to look at all of it.

    The thread is purile generally due to a lack of engagement in the topic by the nationalists, one in particular has had plenty of time to take part in a discussion but prefers talking about masturbating gorilla’s, for example.
  18. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

  19. JimmyB

    JimmyB pfm Member

    I don't think that helped your cause there, both sides are equally happy to avoid any substance and proper discussion.
  20. ff1d1l

    ff1d1l pfm Member

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