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Satisfaction begins with the right speakers

kasperhauser

pfm Member
At least, mine apparently does.

Due to circumstances, I've spent the last 16 months listening to my system through a rather nice pair of vintage JBL L46, a large-ish two-way bookshelf speaker. These are proper old-school white-woofer JBLs, very capable, and I really like them; even so, my enjoyment/satisfaction with the sound during this time has been modest at the best of times. It has been a time of enjoying the music despite the sound, rather than enjoying the synergy of the two, which for me is the driving force behind hi-fi nerdery.

Yesterday I was able to bring the Shahinians back on line, and the transformation was instantaneous. Fantastic! My interest level in what I was hearing spiked off the chart; I couldn't get the records on fast enough, and ended up listening long past my bedtime for the first time in, well, about 16 months.

Now, bear in mind the only thing that changed was the speakers: same sources, same amps, etc. My conclusion is that once someone is lucky enough to find the speakers that do "it" for them, they are most of the way there - better sources, cables, isolation, etc. may provide more detail and better insight, tighter this and smoother that, but those things alone can't completely connect you to the listening experience the way the presentation and presence of the right speakers can.

Just out of curiosity, I swapped out amps, putting the modest vintage Rotel RA-413 integrated amp (25 wpc) in the mix. Different sound, yes, slightly bass shy, a little less refined on the highs (and actually, a little quieter background - this is a pretty nice little amp), but the impact persisted - same visceral, immediate connection to the music.

All this may just be an artifact of the way I personally listen, but that's my experience. Not sure what this does to the old "source first" maxim, but for me, if the speakers are right, the music is right.
 
Obelisks - early 80's ones, so nothing really special in the context of the Shahinian pantheon, although they do have updated bass drivers.
 
Clearly there is a lot of sense in that as speakers sound wildly different.

It also remains true about crap in crap out.

Again what Shahinians? And what source?

Edit; ah, Obelisks
 
Sources aren't really that special either: CEC cd player, Pro-Ject Wood Classic 2.9 turntable with Shure M97xE, Cambridge Audio 640P.

I don't mean to suggest my system is particularly awesome or anything; in fact it's fairly modest by the standard set around this place. But the complete transformation effected by the speaker swap, regarding how I relate to what I'm hearing, really kinda caught me off guard.
 
I have obelisks too and based my system around them and although the usual amps are recommended, for me the presentation of the speakers was what captured me regardless of amp.I have a well tempered deck which of course contributes.

Enjoy.
Si
 
How about "electromechanical stuff first?" - after all this is the hardest part to get right because it is multi-disciplinary and has to deal with a bunch of undesirable outside influences into the bargain.

Even with a TT based system, one could argue that you cannot optimise the TT without some decent speakers on the other end of the system - otherwise how do you know whether the "upgrades" are really improving matters, or just compensating for deficiencies in the speakers? (the same can be said for choosing speakers without a decent source - though CD is good enough to guide most speaker purchases).

All in all I'm in favour of getting the speaker end sorted early in the process, especially as all speakers are far from perfect so one is forced to make a subjective choice that suits one's taste and listening environment.
 
its hard to really say what works best ....

get a decent pair of speakers and an amp .... plays and sounds good

now, change the speakers for better speakers, sounds better

keep the 1st speakers, add a much better amp ... now sounds better

then ... add a better cdp and system sounds better

so, my conclusion is that there is always better .... but try to buy the best that you can afford ... then set it up properly and sort out room acoustics and then forget about it ..... and listen and enjoy the music
 
Couldn't agree more. Get the speakers with the sound signature you like and tinker from there. I auditioned several speakers yesterday....came home to my resident speakers and thought "Why am I even looking?". They just tick the boxes FOR ME.
 
its hard to really say what works best ....

get a decent pair of speakers and an amp .... plays and sounds good

now, change the speakers for better speakers, sounds better

keep the 1st speakers, add a much better amp ... now sounds better

then ... add a better cdp and system sounds better

so, my conclusion is that there is always better .... but try to buy the best that you can afford ... then set it up properly and sort out room acoustics and then forget about it ..... and listen and enjoy the music

Also true is the quality of the record, Shahinian speakers as any decent speakers shows up crud recordings - I am drawn to things like Donald Fagan and Lambchop as it sounds "complete". A cheap and big upgrade is quality vinyl.

Si
 
Also true is the quality of the record, Shahinian speakers as any decent speakers shows up crud recordings - I am drawn to things like Donald Fagan and Lambchop as it sounds "complete".

Si

There you go, source 1st!

Nothing like a good recording to make the system really sing, for me you can't beat a good 1st press vinyl copy, very special indeed.

Donald Fagan; how slick is he, slicker than the slickist....!
 
This has been my philosophy for the past 15 years or so. Within a fairly modest system I find TT's, CD players & amps all offer good quality sound. The weakness is nearly always the speakers. Spend the weight of the cash on those & you will have a lot more enjoyment.

I know this flys in the face of a lot of people here but then I can't easily remember the last time I spent money on an upgrade (other than the speakers).
 
Listened to The Nightfly every night this week-super slick. Don't know what to put on after that as its so well produced...suppose its time to be let down by some Radiohead.

Si
 
Out of interest how do you have your speakers positioned?

Si

Ha! The discrete answer would be "sub-optimally". In truth, they are positioned along the lines Dick Shahinian suggests an omni-directional speaker should (or at least can) be positioned - one over here, the other over there, pointing sort of at each other but not really, sort of at the listener but not really, sort of in the room, but not completely; certainly not the classic "either side of the system, 20" from back wall" arrangement. The odd thing is, they still image! There is a soundstage of sorts hanging in the air between them, not pinpoint accurate stuff, which isn't the Shahinian strong suit anyway, but I can hear which side of the stage the bass player is on, whether the piano player faces me or has his back to me, stuff like that.

It's a difficult room, and I decided to work with it rather than against it, and see if the Obelisks could pull it off. Even with the challenges, the magic is there.
 
This has been my philosophy for the past 15 years or so. Within a fairly modest system I find TT's, CD players & amps all offer good quality sound. The weakness is nearly always the speakers. Spend the weight of the cash on those & you will have a lot more enjoyment.

I know this flys in the face of a lot of people here but then I can't easily remember the last time I spent money on an upgrade (other than the speakers).
Agreed. I am satisfied with my sources, my main amp has plenty of drive, and I basically have no upgrade-itis at all. Ok, I want to try a Sumiko Pearl, because it's rumored to be a natural match for my 'table, but that's $100, and something that will be due for replacement anyway. Hardly re-inventing the system, and not your classic upgrade treadmill by any stretch.

My last upgrade was purchasing the phono stage, and that was only because I moved to an amp that didn't have a built-in one. Time to buy more vinyl.
 
Listened to The Nightfly every night this week-super slick. Don't know what to put on after that as its so well produced..


Nothing can stir the emotions like a good system coupled with well produced music (I like Shahinians too)
 
I need to try Is A Woman - garyi has sung its praises for ages now. I only have the follow-up, Aw Cmon, which sounds nice, but honestly, kind of weirds me out a little.

I spent last night beginning to go through a newly acquired treasure trove of vintage 60s jazz vinyl - the subject of an upcoming music thread, as soon as I've had time to assess it a little better. Which compounds the magic, I think - this was all happening with unfamiliar music, not all of it slick or even noise free. I did particularly enjoy a couple of Rudy Van Gelder records, though.
 
obviously, a well produced cd/album makes all the difference .... not sure what type of music you enjoy, but here is a varied list that is regarded as well produced/recorded by many in the industry....

most of these are on spotify aswell ... I have this list (plus a few more on word, so it's a cut and paste) ....enjoy!

Eric Clapton - Unplugged
B B King - Blues on the Bayou
Leonard Cohen - 10 new songs
Beck - Sea Change
Bernard Reeb - Calligraphy
Brian Eno - Another Green World
Buena Vista Social club at Carnegie hall
Cassandra Wilson - A tribute to Joni Mitchell
Damien Rice - Live from Union Chapel
Diana Krall - Love Scenes
Diana Reeves - In The moment
Donald Fagen - The Nightfly
Etta James - Blues to the Bone
Fleet Foxes - Fleet Foxes
Frank Sinatra - Come Dance with me
George Winston - Plains
Graham Nash - songs for beginners
Jackson Browne - solo acoustic volume 1
Jamie Cullum - twentysomething
Jean Michel Jarre - Aero
Joan Baez - Diamonds and rust
Joe Jackson - Body and soul
John Lee Hooker, Eric Clapton - Best of friends
k. d. lang - Hymns of the 49th Parallel
Keb'Mo' - suitcase
Korn - Korn
Muddy Waters - Folk Singer
Nickelback - Dark Horse
Nick Cave & the bad seeds ... The Good Son
Nine Inch Nails ..... The downward spiral
Norah Jones ... come away with me
Orbital ... The alltogether
Pat Metheny ... Travels
Patti Smith Group ... Trampin'
Paul Simon ... You're the one
Penguin Cafe Orchestra ... Penguin Cafe Orchestra
Penguin Cafe Orchestra ... when in Rome
Portico Quartet ... Knee-deep in the north sea
Radiohead ... Amnesiac
Radiohead ... Hail to the thief
Radiohead .... Kid A
Rage against the machine ... Rage against the machine
Regina Spektor ... Begin to hope
Richard Bona ... Munia: the tale
Richard page ... shelter me
Gustav Holtz .... the planets
Rickie Lee Jones ... Rickie Lee Jones
Rilo Kiley .... Under the blacklight
Robert Lucas ... Luke & the Locomotives
Roger Waters ... amused to death
Rokia Traore ... Wanita
Royksoop ... Melody A.M
Rush ... moving pictures
Terry Evans ... puttin' it down
Sade ... diamond life
sade ... stronger than pride
Seal ... Seal
Seth Lakeman ... Kitty Jay
Shelby Lynne ... Just a little lovin'
Shelby Lynne ... suit yourself
Shelleyan Orphan ... Helleborine
Sphongle ... Tales of the Inexpressible
Simply red ... Picture book
Snoop dogg ... doggy style hits
Sophie Zelmani ... Sing and dance
St Vincent ... marry me
Steely Dan ... Aja
Steely Dan ... Gaucho
Stefano Bollani ... I visionari
Stevie wonder ... Innervisions
Sting ... Ten summoner's tales
Sufjan Stevens ... Ilinoise
Suzanne Vega ... Best of
Talk Talk ... colour of spring
Talking Heads ... Stop making sense
Terence trent d'arby ... Introducing the hardline
Terry Evans ... blues for thought
Terry Evans ... come to the river
The Alan Parsons Project ... Pyramid
The Blind boys of Alabama ... Spirit of the century
The blue nile ... a walk across the rooftops
The durutti column ... Keep breathing
Howard Goodall's enchanted voices
The Hives ... The black & white album
The King's singers ... original debut recording with the gordon langford trio
The mars volta .. The bedlam in goliath
The martin harley band ... Grow your own
The radiators ... Radiators
Real Tuesday weld ... The London book of the dead
The roches ... Can we go home now
The rolling stones ... Stripped
The The ... Mind bomb
The waifs ... up all night
Thea Gilmore ... Recorded delivery
Thom Yorke ... The eraser
Tom Jones ... From Las Vegas to London - The best of Live
Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers ... Wildflowers
Tom Waits ... heartattack and vine
Tony Levin ... Pieces of the sun
Traffic ... The low spark of high heeled boys
Van Morrison ... Back on top
Van Morrison ... it's too late to stop now
Vienna Teng ... Inland territory
Willie nelson ... the great divide
yello ... the eye
yo la tengo ... I can hear the heart beating as one
Aki Takase ....St. Louis Blues
Al DiMeola, Al Meola, John McLaughlin .... Friday Night in San Fransico
Alex HK ... L'Homme du moment
Amadito Valdes ... Bajando Gervasio
Anouar Brahem ... Le pas du chat noir
Avishai Cohen ... Adama
Brian Bromberg, Randy Waldman, Vinnie Colaiuta ... Wood
Beuna Vista Social club at carnegie hall
Cannonball Adderly ... Mery, mercy, Mercy! Live
Charles Mingus ... Mingus Ah Hum
Charles Mingus ... Mingus moves
Charles Mingus ... Black saint and the sinner lady
Charlie byrd, stan getz ... Stan Getz: The bossa nova albums
Charlie Hayden ... Beyond the Missouri sun
Charlie Hayden ... Night and the city
Charlie Hunter, Mos Def ... songs from the analog playground
Chuco Valdes ... Bele Bele en la Habana
Clifford Brown, Max roach quintet ... Clifford Brown and max roach
Dave Holland ... conference of the birds
David Sylvian ... Dead bees on a cake
Dhafer youssef ... Electric sufi
Dianne reeves ... that day
* Hyman ... from the age of swing
Dr John with Rickie Lee Jones ... In a sentimental mood
Duke ellington ... money jungle
Eric Mongrain ... fates
Erik Truffaz ... arkhangelsk
Erik Truffaz ... face a face
Ernastene Anderson ... When the sun goes down
Frank Sinatra ... come dance with me
Frank Sinatra ... songs for swingin' lovers!
Freddie Hubbard ... Ready for Freddie
Gene Harris ... The gene Harris trio plus one
George winston ... plains
Hadouk trio ... baldamore (this is one of my new favourite cd's)
Herbie hancock ... Gershwin's world
Herbie hancock, Bennie maupin ... Head hunters
Herbie Hancock, Norah Jones ... River: the joni letters
Hiroaki Honshuku ... Not that silent night
Holly Cole ... shade
Hugh maseleka ... Home
Hugh maseleka ... Liberation
Jaco pastorius ... Jaco Pastorius
Jacques Loussier ... You only love once
Jamiroquai ... Travelling without moving
Jan Erik Kongshaug ... Jazz collection 1
Jim Hall ... Concierto
Jimmy smith ... bashin (I really enjoy this one)
Joao Gilberto ... Getz/Giberto #2
Joe jackson ... body and soul
Joel grare ... paris-istanbul-shanghai
Joey Calderazzo ... Amanecer
John Coltrane ... blue train
John Coltrane ... giant steps
Keith jarrett ... up for it
Kenny baron ... live at bradley's
laura fygi ... the latin touch
lee konitz, warne marsh ... lee konitz with warne marsh
lisa ekdahl ... back to earth
lisa ekdahl orchestra ... heaven, earth and beyond
los lobos ... the town and the city
mannheim steamroller ... christmas
manu katche ... playground
maxime le forestier ... plutot guitare
miami saxaphone quartet ... fourtified
mighty sam McClain ... give it up to love
miles davies ... amandla
miles davies ... tutu
miles davies ... kind of blue
nguyen le ... homescape
nils lofgren - acoustic live
orchestra baobab ... made in dakar
oscar d'leon ... tranquilo
paolo fresu ... melos
pat metheny ... travels
patricia barber ... cafe blue
petra magoni, ferruccio ... musica nuda (listen to the 1st track)
piers faccini ... leave no trace
racheller ferrell ...first instrument
racheller ferrell ...individuality
randy weston ... uhuru africa/highlife
renaud garcia-fons ... arcoluz
ruben gonzalez ... introducing ... ruben gonzalez
scott hamilton .. ballad essentials
serge gainsbourg ... gainsbourg percussions
sergio mendes & brasil 66 ... Brasilerio (listen to the 1st track ... has 100 drums)
shirley horn ... may the music never end
shirley horn ... you're my thrill
sierra maestra ... tibiri tabara
sonny clark ... cool struttin'
sonny rollins ... saxaphone colossus
stacey kent, jim tomlins ... the boy next door
stan kenton ... west side story
stanley clarke ... stanley clarke
susannah McCorkle ... shades of jobim
susannah McCorkle ... ballad essentials
dave brubeck quartet ... take five
dave brubeck quartet ... at carnegie hall
tori amos ... a piano: the collection



wayne shorter ... speak no evil
 


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