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Room treatment benefits

Tim F

pfm Member
Simple question. I see rooms covered with diffusers and absorption panels. If my room already sounds good (outside of a bass hump in one corner), what will be the effect of running panels behind my listening sofa and behind the speakers? Are there any downsides to this or is it a waste of time?

Thanks, Tim
 
Unfortunately every room/system is different. And everyone one of them have some kind of problems. You need to do measurements, find problems and try to address them.
 
I've done that Kenni, I have no major issues other than the bass issue mentioned I need to look at. It's a general question of "can it hurt".
 
The thing is, many people think they have a good room until they hear one. It is like using a pair of glasses for the first time. You always thought what you see is normal but after you have the right pair of glasses or lenses you are impressed what you missed the whole time.
 
If my room already sounds good (outside of a bass hump in one corner)
What are you measuring? If frequency response then you need to widen the scope - e.g. the decay.

If you want to treat a bass hump then your treatments need to handle that frequency range. Just adding e.g. slim panels behind the speakers or behind your seat will probably just absorb the higher frequencies and leave your room sounding dull.
 
I've done that Kenni, I have no major issues other than the bass issue mentioned I need to look at. It's a general question of "can it hurt".

For the start I can suggest isoacoustic feet. If you have wooden floor, it is often is induced by speakers creating bass boom and those isoacoustics eliminate this effect.
Bass issues require a lot of bass trap material or.. PSI avaa c20. Small but expensive.
 
If you're already happy with the sound of your room then probably best to live in ignorant bliss as once you go down this rabbit hole there's no getting out of it! As for whether the addition of treatment can hurt, the short answer is yes. Adding treatment to fix one problem can make another problem emerge, because you've now removed one of the two problems that were previously balancing each other out. It therefore sadly isn't just a case of putting a few panels up on the wall to achieve the predicted outcome. Lots of trial and error is necessary.
 
If it sounds good, then you don't have much to worry about. I found that the best places for absorption are behind your head to reduce the most offensive reflections but if you're sat with the rear wall reasonably far away then you're fine and the other good place is the first reflection on the side walls if they are offensive (ie: where you would be able to see the speakers from the listening position if the panels were mirror hanging on the wall)... for offensive bass, you need an awful lot of stuff that would consume your room so probably best off treating modes with EQ or speaker positioning. If you over do absorbtion then apprently that can lead to a dead room and you might prefer diffusers that reflect the energy but broken up so you brain can't as easily tell where the reflective surface is.
 
My small room is similar, in that I thought I needed panels and the like (and very nearly bought some from here) but then actually took the time to listen from different parts of the room and came to the conclusion it's just a bit of a bass hump in one corner, that is like a little alcove off the end of the room.

So I just dumped a pile of boxes and stuff there that had been cluttering up the room anyway, including some rolled up carpet and a couple of spare duvets. It helped I think.

Totally unscientific, YMMV and all that, but maybe worth a shot before shelling out on stuff you may not need.
 
Just EQ out the bass peak which is causing the ‘boom’, if the room is traditionally furnished and you have decent speakers you won’t need anything else.
Keith
 
It is between difficult and impossible to get rid of a bass hump with any kind of panel on the wall, at least ones that would be acceptable domestically. It’s like trying to stop waves by building sandcastles. Bass frequencies are metres long, if you want to attenuate them with absorption you need to have absorbers a quarter of a wavelength deep, which will likely be a no-no. You could fill the corners. You could try membrane or Helmholtz absorbers, but you need to get the sums right which isn’t straightforward. Best option is to move the speakers and/or move your head, and failing that try and notch out the peak with some eq.

https://www.acousticfields.com/quarter-wavelength-rule/

What panels can be good for is making a room deader at mid and high-frequencies, so that you hear more direct sound from your speakers and it isn’t confused by reflections.
 
Denis foley of acoustic fields is considered a bit of joke/snake oil salesman in the scientific study of acoustics, he takes acoustically valid points and extrapolates/stretches the meaning to favour his products.
 
It is between difficult and impossible to get rid of a bass hump with any kind of panel on the wall, at least ones that would be acceptable domestically. It’s like trying to stop waves by building sandcastles. Bass frequencies are metres long, if you want to attenuate them with absorption you need to have absorbers a quarter of a wavelength deep, which will likely be a no-no. You could fill the corners. You could try membrane or Helmholtz absorbers, but you need to get the sums right which isn’t straightforward. Best option is to move the speakers and/or move your head, and failing that try and notch out the peak with some eq.

https://www.acousticfields.com/quarter-wavelength-rule/
Lots of acousticians on Gearspace argue that the quarter wavelength rule is misleading as it's the depth of porous material required for 100% absorption of that frequency. They argue that thinner depths (e.g. 40cm) will still provide meaningful levels of absorption at frequencies down to around 50 or 40Hz as long as enough surface area is covered. It also gets much easier if you're able to position the porous absorption in a high velocity area for the offending frequencies (i.e. stood off of the wall), which is where they work best. I managed to shave 1dB off a 43Hz axial mode peak and 7dB off a 75Hz SBIR null with a basic 17cm thick porous broadband absorption panel stood 2ft off the wall, - an impractical location for most people. A more efficient method of absorption requiring much less surface area coverage would indeed be diaphragmatic, limp mass membrane or Helmholtz, which can be more conveniently located at the room's boundaries.

Attempting to treat an amplitude LF peak with absorption is an expensive and space-consuming endeavour, and you can get the same if not better results by moving the listening position and/or applying a simple parametric EQ notch filter. This, however, will not ameliorate modal ringing, nor will it give you a smoother response throughout the room with less amplitude variation between peaks and nulls, so it depends what the desired outcome is.
 
Lots of acousticians on Gearspace argue that the quarter wavelength rule is misleading as it's the depth of porous material required for 100% absorption of that frequency. They argue that thinner depths (e.g. 40cm) will still provide meaningful levels of absorption at frequencies down to around 50 or 40Hz as long as enough surface area is covered. It also gets much easier if you're able to position the porous absorption in a high velocity area for the offending frequencies (i.e. stood off of the wall), which is where they work best. I managed to shave 1dB off a 43Hz axial mode peak and 7dB off a 75Hz SBIR null with a basic 17cm thick porous broadband absorption panel stood 2ft off the wall, - an impractical location for most people. A more efficient method of absorption requiring much less surface area coverage would indeed be diaphragmatic, limp mass membrane or Helmholtz, which can be more conveniently located at the room's boundaries.

Attempting to treat an amplitude LF peak with absorption is an expensive and space-consuming endeavour, and you can get the same if not better results by moving the listening position and/or applying a simple parametric EQ notch filter. This, however, will not ameliorate modal ringing, nor will it give you a smoother response throughout the room with less amplitude variation between peaks and nulls, so it depends what the desired outcome is.
Sure .. but I did try and say that effective panels at bass frequencies are unlikely to be acceptable domestically - not many folk want a wall full of panels stood 2ft away from the wall, especially if all they give you is a 1dB improvement! And diaphragm and limp mass absorbers need careful construction and are similarly unlikely to go down well at home. By and large the sort of panels you can buy to put on walls will have negligible effects on bass, but they may well substantially increase intelligibility at mid and high frequencies, especially in modern minimalist interiors. A good start is to get your speakers well away from walls, and sit close (just like most of the guys on gearspace do) but again, that may not be viable domestically.
 


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