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Roger Waters

Discussion in 'off topic' started by Big Tabs, Feb 9, 2023.

  1. PaulMB

    PaulMB pfm Member

    Well of course not, hardly surprising since a previous German government systematically murdered 6 million Jews. On the other hand, I don't hear/see that many mainstream politicians in other democratic countries criticising Israel, apart from in a very mild-mannered way. I think in general one country's politicians do not criticise other governments, unless they are direct rivals or enemies. There has, for instance, been some criticism of Orban's authoritarianism, but all very gentle and polite and they all smile and shake hands with him.
  2. anubisgrau

    anubisgrau pfm Member

    Well, Orban doesn't have bloody hands. Netanyahu has.
  3. DonQuixote99

    DonQuixote99 pfm Member

    I know, I thought it sounded like the generations before me, but at this point they are very thin on the ground.
  4. russel

    russel ./_dazed_and_confused

    Not sure you could describe the Nazis as a government, that implies some sort of democracy which had ceased prior to WW2 breaking out. Military dictatorship would be more accurate. Notwithstanding the fact that Germans carried out the holocaust does explain German reluctance to criticise Israel.

    As far as criticism of Israel goes then the reason governments are less critical is because Israel has very effective lobbying groups, some official most not. If you compare Israel and South Africa, and plenty of people do even if you think it’s unfair, then no Labour MPs were friends of Apartheid South Africa whilst quite a few are friends of Israel. As regards lobbying this is the kind of thing the groups get up to

    Oh and of course the Al Jazeera report on an Israeli spook happily conniving to take down the Attorney General of the U.K. Intimidation and cash do wonders for getting politicians to sing your tune.
    Metlor likes this.
  5. PaulMB

    PaulMB pfm Member

    In that part of the world everyone has bloody hands. Israel, Egypt, Syria, Hamas, PLO, Hezbollah, Iran, Iraq, the UK, the US, Russia, etc. But the point I was making, if you read my post, is that mainstream politicians do not criticise other governments unless they are actually enemies. This was in response to your observation that German politicians do not criticise Israel.
    If you recall, there was little criticism of Trump from foreign mainstream politicians, and there is no criticism of Modi in Egypt, little of Iran, or even of Qatar, which recently bribed a number of European MPs. The thing is to keep diplomatic channels open rather than starting a crisis which could make things worse for everyone.
  6. PaulMB

    PaulMB pfm Member

    I think a government is a government, irrespective of democracy. Yes, Hitler was a dictator, but he had the usual set of ministers in the usual roles.
    JonR and KrisW like this.
  7. DonQuixote99

    DonQuixote99 pfm Member

    Except for all the unusual stuff, but basically agree. Even a totally arbitrary rule by bandits is a government, if it rules.
  8. MVV

    MVV pfm Member

    Bottom line is Waters is an old fashioned peacenik and is in bother for questioning the universal view that the west is totally in the right in this shitshow of a proxy war. He’s now in trouble for being anti-Semitic which is utter bollocks. They just want to shut him up.
    ‘Us’ are not as different to ‘them’ as we insist. We are just more sophisticated in our comms.
    lokdownir and mik_rik like this.
  9. tuga

    tuga Legal Alien

    Old farts + influence = Brexit
    chartz likes this.
  10. JensenHealey

    JensenHealey pfm Member

    I read today that an upcoming concert of his in Germany has been 'cancelled' by order of the local council, citing anti-semitic views. Roger threatening legal action.

    I was tempted to go see him again on the current tour - I have seen a very good show of his a few years ago. But his views on current affairs are not what I want to hear from him - and there must be a fair chance that he will spout forth from the stage - so, with regret, Roger.... you're fired!
  11. Bjork67

    Bjork67 pfm Member

    Makes you ask questions innit, scary as feck. I know quite a few people of the same age and its as if they go baaaah parsnip im going to spout a load of offensive remarks that are totally wrong because that will put things right and i want to offend my family as a parting gift.
  12. flatpopely

    flatpopely Prog Rock/Moderator

    Proxy war?
  13. -alan-

    -alan- pfm Member

    Indeed. Two similarly attention-seeking @rseholes who should also be denied the oxygen of publicity.
  14. flatpopely

    flatpopely Prog Rock/Moderator

    Ah , I see. The US told Putin to invade Ukraine.
  15. MVV

    MVV pfm Member

    When I hope this war ends and years later it’s causes are analysed the conclusion will be something like the end of collaborative diplomacy by the west and the promotion and support of adjoining states to place pressure on the Russian regime. That pressure was perceived as existential by Russia.

    I accept it depends on who is looking from where if that constitutes “instigated”

    Oddly when I wrote that post it gave me a tiny insight into what it might be like living in an authoritarian regime, fleetingly it crossed my mind; might I get a knock on the door?
    I dismissed it.
    mik_rik, ks.234 and droodzilla like this.
  16. ks.234

    ks.234 Half way to Infinity

    Yes, you are correct. Any rational analysis of this conflict will look beyond the current moral relativism that sees the US as “good” by ring fencing that assessment around the years of the war. But a more historical assessment will have to include long standing foreign policy objectives, broken promises, and economic interference in the rise of Putin.
    mik_rik likes this.
  17. barryb

    barryb pfm Member

    Furthermore, none of this exhaustive analysis will ever quite encapsulate the suffering of ordinary people, chiefly young men.
  18. garyi

    garyi leave blank

    I saw him in 'Murica last year yes there was a relatively being amount of moaning from him but it was not excessive. This being said I saw 'Think Floyd' the following month and they were way better!
  19. Cheese

    Cheese Bitter lover

    Why the use of quotation marks ? Someone has decided to prevent the concert from being held, as such it was cancelled indeed. The reasons that have led to it are another matter.
  20. JensenHealey

    JensenHealey pfm Member

    Because the word Cancelled has been re-defined these days. Yes, the concert has been cancelled in a traditional and legal sense, but the reason is because Roger Waters is being 'cancelled' in the modern jargon.

    Word definitions can change surprisingly quickly. I was a student back in the mid-70s when the word 'Gay' was re-assigned almost overnight.

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