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Roger Waters

I’ve stuck it in. Basically you just need to copy the BBCode straight into your post.

PS That one certainly makes more sense.
 
DonQuixote99 said:
Eg, some conservative christians definately dip into the red
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The major religions were all supposed to be in the green zone, but their cultures (which is NOT the religion) are often orange or red.

Corporatism can also be a tyranny - look at the US where lobbying owns the government
 
davidsrsb said:
The major religions were all supposed to be in the green zone, but their cultures (which is NOT the religion) are often orange or red.

Corporatism can also be a tyranny - look at the US where lobbying owns the government
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I'd argue that some Christian institutions like, very notably, the Catholic Church, have historically often operated along extremely hierarchical and authoritarian lines. Though not exclusively, and there have been strong counter-currents in recent decades.

I'd tend to reserve the word 'tyranny' for genuine reign-of-terror police-state situations: think Stalin, Nazis, North Korea, etc. Iron fist without velvet glove.
 
DonQuixote99 said:
I'd argue that some Christian institutions like, very notably, the Catholic Church, have historically often operated along extremely hierarchical and authoritarian lines. Though not exclusively, and there have been strong counter-currents in recent decades.

I'd tend to reserve the word 'tyranny' for genuine reign-of-terror police-state situations: think Stalin, Nazis, North Korea, etc. Iron fist without velvet glove.
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The Catholic Church reporting to an all powerful Pope and the CofE which is basically the same thing nationalised reporting to the King, can be argued to be the feudal system taking over a religion and imposing its culture. Exactly the same thing has happened in Islam and Buddhism with hereditary kings taking control
 
davidsrsb said:
Corporatism can also be a tyranny - look at the US where lobbying owns the government
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The US does not practice corporatism, a clear sign of that is that US trade unions are weak. Only 10% of workers even belong to a union and they have little power to negotiate much at all.

In Finland over 60% of workers belong to a union and by law the agreements they negotiate (like salary raises) apply to even non-union members and unorganised companies.
Corporatism has been practiced in liberal social democracies but also in fascist Italy, and others, so it doesn't really fit well into the chart.

You are thinking about what Wikipedia calls corporatocracy, where huge private companies practice significant control over the state through lobbying and corruption.
 
Chefren said:
The US does not practice corporatism, a clear sign of that is that US trade unions are weak. Only 10% of workers even belong to a union and they have little power to negotiate much at all.

In Finland over 60% of workers belong to a union and by law the agreements they negotiate (like salary raises) apply to even non-union members and unorganised companies.
Corporatism has been practiced in liberal social democracies but also in fascist Italy, and others, so it doesn't really fit well into the chart.

You are thinking about what Wikipedia calls corporatocracy, where huge private companies practice significant control over the state through lobbying and corruption.
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Well, I'm thinking too of corporations like Disney, who wield power on their own behalf and seek independence from government, but see their right to do so as part of a strong structure of civil rights of individuals, whom they act to support. That was sort of what justified putting that 'corporatism' label where I put it. But the 'corporatism band' might include much more right wing actors, as well. Diagram in the end is sort of simplistic.
 
Maybe RW ought to reflect on some of the lyrics he has produced over the years. "Sad old man......" from "Dogs" springs to mind.
 
He’s only doing what he’s always done. Pigs from the same album had well aimed attacks on Thatcher and Mary Whitehouse. He actually got in well ahead of the pack there given Thatcher wasn’t PM until ‘79.
 
You could draw the chart as a circle with the idealist groups in the middle. I would place corporatism, ideal communism and the intended religions there. None of these actually exist.
Then you can move away in the directions of fascism, feudalism, corporatocracy and theocracies. These are all paths to the few controlling the masses
 
He’s clearly in the right and angry about it. I thought he made his case well, I was using ‘rant’ to mean pretty intense/full-on. Maybe not the right word.

PS I still hope he sues the living shit out of attention-seeking Labour prat Christian Wakeford. I’m sure he has a case.
 
Bottom line is no one is allowed to criticise the west and their warlike interventions. If they do they will be stopped.
 
I only watched about 5 minutes of it, but he struck me as one of those boring, narcissistic people who believe they have understood everything that needs to be understood, that think they know what is true or false, what is right or wrong, and that anyone who challenges him is "scum." No nuances, no complexities, He has seen The Light. And believes that because he is a well known musician his view of the entire world must be right. This is apart from any considerations about his playing or not playing in Manchester. I don't like him, would not like to talk to him. And I couldn't care less about any ant-Semitism. Seems like just an old bore.
 
I think he's angry because vile lies about him have been splashed across the front page of every newspaper in the land.

If the same lies were being told about me, I'd be calling the liars "scum" too.

The difference between me and Waters is that he has the money and clout to get his message out there and fight back. If I were in his position, I'd be ****ed.
 
PaulMB said:
I only watched about 5 minutes of it, but he struck me as one of those boring, narcissistic people who believe they have understood everything that needs to be understood, that think they know what is true or false, what is right or wrong, and that anyone who challenges him is "scum." No nuances, no complexities
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There's plenty of his type around.
 
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