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Roe vs Wade overturned

Klassik Sr. lived in places such as Czechoslovakia and the DDR for a number of years and was even married to a local for a while who eventually came to the US. Klassik has a half-brother from that who is American educated, but who lives in Poland currently. Klassik Sr. knew what it was like living in these places as well as Western Europe, the US, and some other places as well.

And Klassik Sr. had the means, knowledge and liberty to move, presumably because they thought a better quality of life was available in USA. Or was there another reason for relocating?

Klassik will not assume that quality of life is better for someone in the US than in China.
It seems to me that such differences existing are self evident. What are the odds they’d all be similar?

As always, there are certain variables. Things are going to be different for a wealthy American versus a poor Chinese person and things will be different from a wealthy Chinese person compared to a poor American person. There are very impoverished Americans who are living in tent cities or out of their cars. There are a number of people living in such squalor in Houston, but some cities are even worse. It's quite well-known that the US has a large population of incarcerated people as well. There was a report this past week in the media discussing research from Texas A&M University discussing oppressive heat in some Texas prisons where there is no A/C. They found one cell where the temperature was 149 F (65 C). :eek:
Agreed.

There might be certain limitations on freedoms the Chinese have, but Klassik knows not if these are things the average Chinese person spends much time thinking about in their daily lives.
Why is that?

While western propaganda and natural thoughts are about the evils of the Chinese form of governance, Chinese propaganda, and the logic of their own people, surely look at US/western governments and think it must be chaos. If an outsider takes a look at US news, for example, one would see constant squabbling and changes of power, protesters getting arrested, corporate-dominated politics, racial/immigrant/refugee unrest, many instances of involvement in foreign military conflicts, and so forth. They probably view this as discord and something which hinders governance as compared to a more stable system like they have. At the very least, someone trying to be fair to both sides can see advantages and disadvantages to both systems.
The salient point being which country is irrelevant, because they all excrete disingenuous and deceitful propaganda when necessary.

Just looking at the US, or the UK as there are a lot of similarities, the people collectively do have a large say in government, But, yet, what we see year after year are corporate-driven neoliberal policies being implemented by government from all the parities of relevance. The corporate class are very united in their ideology and support. Their voices will be heard. With the public, well...not so much. Thus, the major parties are accountable to corporate power and not to the needs of the public. Thus, we see 40+ years of eroding public funding, 40+ years of eroding employment standards, 40+ years of rubber stamp mergers and acquisitions without concern if commerce is operating under fair competition, 40+ years of globalization leading to decreased employment, decreased wages, and increased global pollution.

In the few cases that the public gets something they want, it's usually right-wing nonsense such as Republican Party support for anti-abortion judges and legislation. The Republican Party will fight hard for their base to support such things in exchange for the public supporting the religious-like zeal of deregulated free market economics. The Democratic Party gives lackluster (at best), often unsuccessful support for things they public wants (and they make no effort for things such as nationalized healthcare) while still religiously supporting the same deregulated free market economics. Perhaps the best things the US public has gotten from the Democrats are their judicial branch appointees, but what we've seen from the Democrats as far as executive and legislative branch work is truly dreadful. Even then, it could be argued that the Republicans are better at getting judges they're happy with than the Democratic-voting public has received from their party given some of the right-wing decisions of the courts even though the Democrats have had more years to appoint federal judges since the 1990s.
Not sure what the relevance is to my question, or why you are being coy. I’m not trying to land a gotcha. Do you have the means and liberty to move?
 
It seems to me that such differences existing are self evident. What are the odds they’d all be similar?
Well I have been to China and quite a lot of people live very well there. In the big cities and towns. In the countryside not so much, but this is mirrored by the low standard of living in U.S. backwaters and even cities. The 'self-evident' differences seem to be projected upon assumptions around vague notions of 'more freedom' therefore better standard of living.
The Chinese state clearly isn't running an austerity economy there, though who knows what the distribution is in their version of capitalism which they practise? The U.S. is running an austerity economy and has been for a long time. So in economic terms I'd say there's no advantage in being in the U.S. over China. So it rests on notions of social and political freedom. Since the west has gone very backward in this respect and that in the west political/social 'freedom' is heavily economically-based, I wouldn't posit more than an increasingly slim margin. China is certainly more overtly authoritative. Western oppression and impediments are much more sophisticated.
 
Well I have been to China and quite a lot of people live very well there. In the big cities and towns. In the countryside not so much, but this is mirrored by the low standard of living in U.S. backwaters and even cities. The 'self-evident' differences seem to be projected upon assumptions around vague notions of 'more freedom' therefore better standard of living.
The Chinese state clearly isn't running an austerity economy there, though who knows what the distribution is in their version of capitalism which they practise? The U.S. is running an austerity economy and has been for a long time. So in economic terms I'd say there's no advantage in being in the U.S. over China. So it rests on notions of social and political freedom. Since the west has gone very backward in this respect and that in the west political/social 'freedom' is heavily economically-based, I wouldn't posit more than an increasingly slim margin. China is certainly more overtly authoritative. Western oppression and impediments are much more sophisticated.
We aren't disagreeing with each other. My point is still stands: those enjoying life "very well" are able to do so because of their place in the pecking order. Same goes for all countries.
 
We aren't disagreeing with each other. My point is still those enjoying life "very well" are able to do so because of their place in the pecking order. Same goes for all countries.
It is indeed. There are plenty of that type who choose to live in China as much as anywhere with money as a buffer no matter where you are. I'll let Klassik speak for himself about his own history.
 
And Klassik Sr. had the means, knowledge and liberty to move, presumably because they thought a better quality of life was available in USA. Or was there another reason for relocating?

Klassik Sr.'s work in Europe was never permanent. He was an industrial/engineering subject matter expert/teacher and so his services were sponsored for a period of time until the locals had the necessary understanding to complete whatever was being done. While Klassik Sr. might have enjoyed the frequent changes of scenery, Mother Klassik did not as she only went to one other country with him and that was a brief stay in Canada. ;)

It should also be noted that the standard of living in the US in the late 1960s and early 1970s was different than it is today. Much progress has been made in, say, civil rights since that time especially here in the south, but many other things have gone backwards. Klassik Sr.'s employer offered stable, regular employment with generous benefits. Klassik Sr.'s employer had paid health insurance with dental, vision, hearing, and so forth coverage with low deductibles. Such employer healthcare packages of comprehensive coverage is rare now. Certainly Klassik's does not stack up and Klassik has it better than most others in terms of employer benefits. Many people in Klassik Sr.'s field have to work on a contractual basis so they may not even have benefits at all. Also, many people in Klassik Sr.'s field, and many other fields, don't have the clear separation between work and home time like before.

Although Mother Klassik did work for a while, it was not necessary for Mother Klassik to work as Klassik Sr.'s middle-class (this has a different meaning in the US than in the UK) income was enough. The public schools where we lived were well-funded, secure, and generally a nice place to be even if Klassik and Klassik Sr. had serious concerns about certain parts of the curriculum. Those same concerns still exist today, but even in middle-class suburbs where Klassik lives today, the schools are so short on teachers that they are relying on permanent substitute teachers. It's considered to be a bit of a crisis here right now and surely class sizes are larger than they were when Klassik went to school.

These are just to name a handful of things which have degraded due to neoliberalism since the time Klassik Sr. returned to the US from Europe.

It seems to me that such differences existing are self evident. What are the odds they’d all be similar?

As Le Baron alludes to with his experiences in China, along with Klassik Sr.'s observations, things are not always what they are perceived to be by those living in ignorance. Klassik has seen how people in large cities in India live doing similar work to what Klassik does in the US and it's not anything tremendously different. The biggest differences are that there is more day-to-day corruption in India than in the US, though that's not to say things are perfect here, and there are much greater problems with pollution/poor utilities in India.

At least in the case of utilities, here where Klassik likes, many of our utilities are still public-run. Klassik knows they may not be in the UK, but here they are public and the service is good, reliable, and affordable. The one exception is electricity which is quasi-privatized (well, it's privatized) and it's a bit of a mess...expensive mess. Internet is also privatized and rather expensive, but reliable at least.

Of course, even if a lot of people are living rather normal lives in places like Mumbai, it's hard to escape the poverty lining the streets. Then again, there are plenty of tent cities in the US, especially in high cost of living places, and they have some of the same maladies caused by poverty that India does...except violent crime is probably worse in the US than in India. Rural poverty in the US is a major problem and is rarely discussed even though it really should be given how many people live in rural areas and also in small/medium-size cities where poverty and crime is often worse than in bigger cities even if perceptions are often reverse.

Why is that?

Because the Chinese aren't Palestinians or some other group of people living dealing with heavy doses of day-to-day oppression...often with the oppressors holding US-made/supplied arms. Then again, young Chinese women working in factory communities, as one example, making computers and Hi-Fi for manufacturers of questionable ethics might long for more daily freedom and the ability to see their families.


The salient point being which country is irrelevant, because they all excrete disingenuous and deceitful propaganda when necessary

Perhaps Le Baron has a better sense of this than Klassik does since Le Baron has been in China, but perhaps the Chinese are also under the spell of private industry propaganda in the form of marketing and such. How much they get from private industry via slanted media and just general influence is perhaps more questionable.

Not sure what the relevance is to my question, or why you are being coy. I’m not trying to land a gotcha. Do you have the means and liberty to move?

What Klassik wrote was not specifically in response to anything other than the OP.

Klassik could move, but Klassik does not wish to move for a number of reasons. The same structural problems in Houston exist in the rest of the US as well and in many other places at least to some degree. Moving might make sense for some just as Klassik has known a few people who have left Houston, but Klassik believes it's best for Klassik to oppose neoliberalism in Klassik's hometown. ;)
 
Klassik Sr.'s work in Europe was never permanent. He was an industrial/engineering subject matter expert/teacher and so his services were sponsored for a period of time until the locals had the necessary understanding to complete whatever was being done. While Klassik Sr. might have enjoyed the frequent changes of scenery, Mother Klassik did not as she only went to one other country with him and that was a brief stay in Canada.

It should also be noted that the standard of living in the US in the late 1960s and early 1970s was different than it is today. Much progress has been made in, say, civil rights since that time especially here in the south, but many other things have gone backwards. Klassik Sr.'s employer offered stable, regular employment with generous benefits. Klassik Sr.'s employer had paid health insurance with dental, vision, hearing, and so forth coverage with low deductibles. Such employer healthcare packages of comprehensive coverage is rare now. Certainly Klassik's does not stack up and Klassik has it better than most others in terms of employer benefits. Many people in Klassik Sr.'s field have to work on a contractual basis so they may not even have benefits at all. Also, many people in Klassik Sr.'s field, and many other fields, don't have the clear separation between work and home time like before.

Although Mother Klassik did work for a while, it was not necessary for Mother Klassik to work as Klassik Sr.'s middle-class (this has a different meaning in the US than in the UK) income was enough. The public schools where we lived were well-funded, secure, and generally a nice place to be even if Klassik and Klassik Sr. had serious concerns about certain parts of the curriculum. Those same concerns still exist today, but even in middle-class suburbs where Klassik lives today, the schools are so short on teachers that they are relying on permanent substitute teachers. It's considered to be a bit of a crisis here right now and surely class sizes are larger than they were when Klassik went to school.

These are just to name a handful of things which have degraded due to neoliberalism since the time Klassik Sr. returned to the US from Europe.

As Le Baron alludes to with his experiences in China, along with Klassik Sr.'s observations, things are not always what they are perceived to be by those living in ignorance. Klassik has seen how people in large cities in India live doing similar work to what Klassik does in the US and it's not anything tremendously different. The biggest differences are that there is more day-to-day corruption in India than in the US, though that's not to say things are perfect here, and there are much greater problems with pollution/poor utilities in India.

At least in the case of utilities, here where Klassik likes, many of our utilities are still public-run. Klassik knows they may not be in the UK, but here they are public and the service is good, reliable, and affordable. The one exception is electricity which is quasi-privatized (well, it's privatized) and it's a bit of a mess...expensive mess. Internet is also privatized and rather expensive, but reliable at least.

Of course, even if a lot of people are living rather normal lives in places like Mumbai, it's hard to escape the poverty lining the streets. Then again, there are plenty of tent cities in the US, especially in high cost of living places, and they have some of the same maladies caused by poverty that India does...except violent crime is probably worse in the US than in India. Rural poverty in the US is a major problem and is rarely discussed even though it really should be given how many people live in rural areas and also in small/medium-size cities where poverty and crime is often worse than in bigger cities even if perceptions are often reverse.
Or for brevity "yes". ;)

Because the Chinese aren't Palestinians or some other group of people living dealing with heavy doses of day-to-day oppression...often with the oppressors holding US-made/supplied arms. Then again, young Chinese women working in factory communities, as one example, making computers and Hi-Fi for manufacturers of questionable ethics might long for more daily freedom and the ability to see their families.
I'd go further. The near total oppression they suffer means they can't communicate with those in relatively free countries.


Klassik could move, but Klassik does not wish to move for a number of reasons. The same structural problems in Houston exist in the rest of the US as well and in many other places at least to some degree. Moving might make sense for some just as Klassik has known a few people who have left Houston, but Klassik believes it's best for Klassik to oppose neoliberalism in Klassik's hometown.
There's a time to fight. Equally the secret of long life is knowing where it's time to go.
Family decided to move after attempted robbery mentioned before. Proved to be the right thing to do as serious crime in neighbourhood became ever worse for over 12 years.
Then gentrification began and that completed about five years ago. I wouldn't want to live in either situation.
 
I'd go further. The near total oppression they suffer means they can't communicate with those in relatively free countries.

There are a number of Chinese people in Houston, and even more Vietnamese, but Klassik has heard neither groups talk much about homeland politics. There are some Vietnamese people involved in Houston politics so it's not that these groups aren't politically involved, but perhaps they culturally view their politics in a different manner than other groups do. Certainly Klassik has heard Indian/Pakistani, Middle Eastern, and South American immigrants talk quite freely about homeland politics.

Anyway, Klassik will report back if Klassik sees any Chinese people in Houston reading The Epoch Times. ;)

There's a time to fight. Equally the secret of long life is knowing where it's time to go.
Family decided to move after attempted robbery mentioned before. Proved to be the right thing to do as serious crime in neighbourhood became ever worse for over 12 years.
Then gentrification began and that completed about five years ago. I wouldn't want to live in either situation.

As Klassik said previously, violent crime is getting worse all over Houston. Houston is hardly alone in that regard in the US though perhaps there are some areas which are doing better than others. The high-crime areas are even worse than they were a few years ago and the low-crime areas, which is where Klassik lives, are mostly getting worse as well. This is not just a big city problem either.
 
The Supreme Court will no doubt ban votes in other States after declaring Kansas unconstitutional for not having an obscure enough question on the ballot paper ;)
 
btw @Klassik sorry for sounding snippy about cities of USA, and well done for not taking offence! I prefer rural & wild places so that's where most travelling happens. There are few cities anywhere on my 'must visit' list, but lots of rural and wild parts of USA are.
 
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Don't do it in the summer.

Amen to that. I spent 3 months there in summer 1999 (might have been 1998) and there was not a day below 100°F.

...and humid

Well, those of us in Houston just went through the hottest July in Houston's recorded history. :eek: Of course, air conditioning is very common here so it's quite easy to avoid the heat if one stays indoors, but yes, it's very hot and humid here otherwise.

12094348_HERZT002_Hottest_July_1.png


https://abc13.com/houston-texas-hea...ures-july-weather-excessive-warning/12094349/
 
I didn't think that was particularly hot until I realised it was the average, and with humidity thrown in too it would be rather challenging for sure.
 
I didn't think that was particularly hot until I realised it was the average, and with humidity thrown in too it would be rather challenging for sure.

Those averages must consider the temperature over the full day and not just the high temperatures. At least as far as this past July goes, if it was daylight outside past 10am or so, it was over 90 F. The highs were over 100 F several times. :eek:
 
What crap law. "Clear and convincing evidence" of "mature enough" is an abuse of the language. You can't have clear and convincing evidence of a thing for which no such evidence is remotely possible. "Mature enough" can be nothing but a judgement based on opinion. Demanding "clear and convincing evidence" of such a thing is an impossible burden.
 


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