Revisiting Jim Rogers JR149s

[Tony L]

I don't think these words have ever been used in the same sentence before. You're saying the JR149s are less neutral than the Klipschs?

I find the Heresys very nicely voiced as long as volume is kept fairly moderate and they sit on the floor as intended. I like them a lot, they get the important stuff very right indeed and only lose it at levels higher than I'd ever want to listen to (which would be far outside the 149s reach anyway). I'd not say either speaker was more less natural than the other, they just have different strengths / weaknesses. I'm getting used to the 149s on TV now as they've been on all evening, they sound good.

One of the reasons I like doing this kind of thing is the presentation between speakers is just so different, they all highlight different aspects of the source material. I can really understand why so many hard-core Japanese, Hong Kong etc Tannoy fans also have a pair of LS3/5As knocking around - whilst there is little doubt in my mind that the Tannoy is a better speaker (they actually beat the 149s at their strengths let alone their weaknesses IMO), the contrast is great fun and it allows enjoyment of a piece of music in a very different context, plus some material just suits a close-sited mini-monitor, other stuff needs the full-range hit of a big main monitor.

I plan to run the 149s in the TV system for a good while now. I'll probably do a 'six months on /six months off' kind of thing with the Heresys for a bit of variation. I need to have a think about recapping them. Sounds like that may be well worth doing - it certainly improved the Heresys, and they are a fair bit younger. I did those with fancy film caps though (so my Heresys probably sound a bit smoother than most!).

 

[davidsrsb]

1981 review and measurements of MKII model
http://mcmullon.com/icollect/hi_fi/jim_rogers/jr/Hi-Fi_News05.jpg
http://mcmullon.com/icollect/hi_fi/jim_rogers/jr/Hi-Fi_News05.jpg (has the graphs)
http://mcmullon.com/icollect/hi_fi/jim_rogers/jr/Hi-Fi_News06.jpg

 

[Jo Sharp]

A recap would be very sensible. And if for some strange reason it doesn't improve things it is reversible.

The wires to the drivers look rather poor....that connector/terminal block needs a close look too.

 

[Tony L]

A recap would be very sensible. And if for some strange reason it doesn't improve things it is reversible.

The wires to the drivers look rather poor....that connector/terminal block needs a close look too.

I'm certainly tempted to recap them, though only with the better tolerance of the two Falcon kits (link). I'm sure film caps etc would be better, but space is very limited in there due both to the alloy base and the proximity of other components. It's not possible to go much bigger without embarking on some kind of hack job which would kill the value of the speakers stone dead. Likewise messing with the wiring. I'd not have gone anywhere near a modified pair and I'm certainly not alone! FWIW the wiring would also be very complex to do due to the structure of the cabinet and air-seals etc, it would probably involve cracking all the glue-joints open and rebuilding them, which is not something I'd ever consider. My aim with vintage kit is only to restore and enjoy it for what it is. I'm far more interested in knowing whether the crossover is likely to be audibly out of spec due to age rather than knowing if I can "upgrade" it with fancy modern components.

The white cable connector sill has me confused. I can't figure out how it works / how to unplug it, which is annoying as it will obviously make recapping a lot easier if I can get the crossover free of the cab.

 

[Jo Sharp]

No, don't mess with the wires if the cabinet can't be easily opened. If there s not enough space in the crossover casing to fit film caps, you could recap using new, quality electrotytics and try bypassing by adding a small value film in //....again easily removed if it doesn't work.

The connector sounds puzzling...can you try a close up pic?

 

[Jo Sharp]

PS....try undoing the crossover board from the speaker (looks like the nut in the middle holds it in place?) and see what s on the other side of that terminal connector. It looks line it should just be a push fit onto pins but if it is stuck fast then corrosion s likely to be the cause...not good for sound quality

 

[ToTo Man]

The white cable connector sill has me confused. I can't figure out how it works / how to unplug it, which is annoying as it will obviously make recapping a lot easier if I can get the crossover free of the cab.

The connector has 4 lugs inside it onto which the 4 wires are "crimped". These lugs are "female" and slip over 4 "male" pins which are firmly attached to the crossover. The connector is unplugged by lifting it off in an upwards direction. But be sure to ease it / prise it off gently a little at a time on each side or you may end up bending/loosening the female lugs inside it (this may happen anyway due to age and the rather poor fragile nature of the lugs, - and if it does it's not the end of the world as you can always just solder the wires directly onto the pins and do away with the plastic connector). Good luck!

 

[Mr Tibbs]

I imagine the plug connecter pins are are (slightly) corroded in place, making the plug stuck firm - but that's all the more reason not to just leave it alone. Have a close look around the base for any sign of a locking mechanism first, then try gently prising up the plug using a small screwdriver between the PCB and plug body. Protect the PCB with some card to avoid marking it. As Jo has pointed out, the input terminals look as if they need some attention as well.

I'm still looking for my old Elcaps to measure them but it's probably a good idea to go ahead and fit new ones in any case. Film caps would be an improvement in terms of being able to hear more information but you could leave that idea for now and just replace the Elcaps with the (better) Falcon ones. When you are fitting the new caps you should refresh all other solder joints while you are in there. One last thing, resistors can degrade over time and you should at least measure them to ensure they are still in tolerance.

Mr Tibbs

 

[Tony L]

The connector has 4 lugs inside it onto which the 4 wires are "crimped". These lugs are "female" and slip over 4 "male" pins which are firmly attached to the crossover. The connector is unplugged by lifting it off in an upwards direction.

Correct!

Didn't take much shifting to be honest - previously I didn't understand whether the white plug came off, or the leads clipped into the top of it. As such I'd only looked really, not tried to move it. The pins are a little grubby but I reckon they'll clean up ok. They remind me of the ones on the 4 pin plug that connects a Tannoy driver to it's crossover, i.e. far from lush gold-plated audiophile finery.

Edit: the plugs / pins have cleaned-up a treat, no corrosion at all despite the rather dull look in the pic above. After that was taken I gave the pins a good scrub with some Duraglit and sprayed some switch-cleaner in the sockets and plugged/unplugged them a few times - I'm happy all is as it should be.

 

[davidsrsb]

Check the solder joints on those pins carefully. Single sided boards do not support this type of pin well and the soldering can crack when you prise off the white connector

 

[Tony L]

Check the solder joints on those pins carefully. Single sided boards do not support this type of pin well and the soldering can crack when you prise off the white connector

They actually came off really easily - no force / levering or anything required, no more effort required than say rolling a small ECC83 or whatever tube out of it's socket. All the pins feel really solid (I've just cleaned them all) and all connections are made immediately contact is made, i.e. no crackling at any point of the plug's travel (I didn't bother turning the amp / TV of whilst I did it - it's a Quad 303 and therefore indestructible!). I'm confident all is ok here, but I'll check them better if / when I remove the board to replace the caps. I still can't decide whether to leave as-is or renew.

 

[Jo Sharp]

Good news...a step forward.

 

[WillietheSquid]

I owned a pair from 1978 to 1981. Loved them. Loaned them out and they were wrecked. Sadness.

They were driven by GAS Son of Ampzilla (80 wpc and fine match) with a Grace F9L / Grace 707 on a quality Teac TT.

Those were the days. I was studying law ... and I had this system set up so that I could listen and read for hours at a time. I was in a FM radio shadow so my only source was the vinyl.

About 10 years ago I went through a stage where I purchased some of the 'vintage' equipment that I had owned in the 70s / early 80's to 're-listen' and hear if my memories were valid. I was able to do this with a nice pair of JR-149s.

Listening Impressions:

Immediately / instantly it was so much fun to hear and remember the sonic signature and presentation of this fine little monitor. It was big fun.

They were more inefficient that I remembered. They really required some serious voltage to bring them alive. But with a powerful solid state amp, they had fine dynamics.

I found them to be spectacular imagers ... tremendous sense of space, size, and scale for a little loudspeaker. I always assumed it was a function of the wire mesh covering / protecting the drivers.

I loved the balance ... they had bass qualities that were to my ears far superior to LS3/5a (deeper bass with less of the BBC lift?) and the speakers clearly 'scaled' better.

They were a 'better match' with my analog rig than my digital sources. Why?

I think because the 'flaw' of the JR-149 was less obvious when using a good analog front end than a digital front end. That flaw has been mentioned in the thread ... a slight nasal quality on voices. I was able to live with it easily back in the day ....

I kept them for several months and then moved them along.

Thanks for the memories.

WTS

 

[chfs911]

Glad you have all found your JR 149s as good sounding as I have.

I have them 10' foot apart and 16" from the ground and I sometimes mistake them for the Avantgarde Duos sitting behind!

I have been driving them with the A60 and using a X3000 Sony CD and a T21 tuner as source.

Si74 is restoring my Systemdek Transcription deck with PU2. I am currently trying out his Lenco.

Total cost with bell wire is £500 and it beats my Arcam 5 Cd/ Nait 2 / Kans2 easily.

I must have got the last of the foams from Graham only a couple of weeks ago.

I have resisted recapping both the A60 and the 149s but a Alps blue will be added and some Van damme cable if it fits straight into the 149 crossover.

charles

 

[Tony L]

They were more inefficient that I remembered. They really required some serious voltage to bring them alive. But with a powerful solid state amp, they had fine dynamics.

Yes, that's my experience too. I don't think I ever got to hear my first pair with anything other than the Quad 303. Judging from my comparison with the 306 (that Rob's recently serviced with slightly uprated caps) and the Leak Stereo 20 they do like some power (the 306 seems a lot more powerful than the 303 or Stereo 20). I've never heard the Stereo 20 sound so bad to be honest, obviously way out of it's comfort zone. The 303 isn't bad, just a little muddy compared to how it sounds into the ultra-easy to drive Heresys. It would be interesting to hear the 149s with a real powerhouse, I think if they ever became my main speaker I'd grab a Quad 909 or something like that as they may well want a bit more than the 306 has on tap. Would be interesting to hear them on the end of a 200 watt Krell or something!

I kept them for several months and then moved them along.

I'll definitely be keeping these - I've always regretted not buying a pair of LS3/5As when they were still cheap, and given my personal audio history a pair of 149s actually makes more sense. I just like the idea of having a nice pair of little speakers knocking around for those times I fancy a mini-monitor fix. They are also so well behaved they'd be a great option if I ever end up living in a tiny room or wanting a system in same, so they are keepers for sure. They'd make superb rears in a surround system too as they can sit near a wall without booming, not that I can see myself ever going down that path.

 

[Tony L]

I have resisted recapping both the A60 and the 149s but a Alps blue will be added and some Van damme cable if it fits straight into the 149 crossover.

The 1.5mm Van Damme Blue is pretty much perfect IMO - it's pretty much the maximum one can get through the hole without any contact with the screw and washer thing that aligns the base on later types (my red logo ones didn't have this) or the base itself. The last thing you want here is anything that would stop the base mating firmly with the wood (it will rattle / buzz), so go just under rather than just over with cable width!

Whilst we are on the general subject has anyone any clue as to the size and thread pattern of the speaker cable terminal screws on the crossovers? A couple of mine are a bit tarnished and it would be nice to replace them, but they aren't metric and I haven't a clue what they are.

 

[twotone]

Correct!

Didn't take much shifting to be honest - previously I didn't understand whether the white plug came off, or the leads clipped into the top of it. As such I'd only looked really, not tried to move it. The pins are a little grubby but I reckon they'll clean up ok. They remind me of the ones on the 4 pin plug that connects a Tannoy driver to it's crossover, i.e. far from lush gold-plated audiophile finery.

Edit: the plugs / pins have cleaned-up a treat, no corrosion at all despite the rather dull look in the pic above. After that was taken I gave the pins a good scrub with some Duraglit and sprayed some switch-cleaner in the sockets and plugged/unplugged them a few times - I'm happy all is as it should be.

Those wires on my speakers are just plugged into the each socket individually, there is no plastic connector on each of my speaker's crossover.

 

[Robert]

Those wires on my speakers are just plugged into the each socket individually, there is no plastic connector on each of my speaker's crossover.

Mine were too, but they were red logo so perhaps this changed.

Re the internal wiring, it's very thin but also very short so there would be no benefit in replacing it. Perhaps if you had 1m+ in circuit but not at these lengths IMO.

 

[Tony L]

Those wires on my speakers are just plugged into the each socket individually, there is no plastic connector on each of my speaker's crossover.

I think mine are a pretty late pair, the serial is 17743x. There's a date handwritten inside the box, 3/3/81, but I've no idea what if anything that corresponds too, i.e. it may be a date they were resold or nothing to do with them at all.

 

[twotone]

I think mine are a pretty late pair, the serial is 17743x. There's a date handwritten inside the box, 3/3/81, but I've no idea what if anything that corresponds too, i.e. it may be a date they were resold or nothing to do with them at all.

Mine are 11889 and are the gold logo ones.

I had a problem with the blue wire on one of the speakers which goes to the bass driver but the brass connector had just come loose, the connectors are just larger versions on the ones on you get on tonearms to connect a cartridge (think the colours are the same).