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Revisiting Jim Rogers JR149s

I heard that on my pair as a slightly nasal vocal quality.
You can hear it on Radio 4 male presenters and newsreaders.
Very slight though and I think a characteristic of the B110.

The JR149 measurement I saw shows that there is a dip from 1 to 2kHz and that there is no mid-bass boost, with gentle roll off below 300Hz (which is why these work near a wall)

There appear to be 3 major versions of the speaker, with the MKIII not using the KEF drivers, so its probably a bit different
 
That's a great price! Are they the black perspex tops? I wasn't aware they made them in piano black, though might be a refinish I guess. The wall brackets look really cool, though I don't feel it's the best place for them - they seem to come to life well out into the room a bit even if they lack weight.

No I think the tops are wood or metal Tony, the link below gives you all of the details of the versions and prices paid up to about last December.

I think I got a real bargain, even the seller (Vintage HI-FI shop in Norfolk) said the same. I had a problem with a loose connection on the crossover so had to call the guy up but it was no big deal in the end anyway he said that the speakers had been on this woman's wall for 23 years, they're mint with just some polishing marks on the top.


Piano black ones are not common but they have sold for over £450 in the recent past.

I had them in a bay window sitting on the cill and they sounded a bit boomy but fine then I moved them into the room a bit on an old table and a chair and they were very good but my wife wasn't keen on stands so I fitted the wall stands quite high up either side of the bay window and they sound absolutely excellent, they're about 10ft apart and about 7ft high to the top of the speakers.

Here's a link to my recent thread with photos of my room

http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=134015


http://mcmullon.com/icollect/hi_fi/jim_rogers/jr_review.htm#JR149_accessories_
 
There appear to be 3 major versions of the speaker, with the MKIII not using the KEF drivers, so its probably a bit different

I read through the LS3/5A Yahoo group threads that mentioned JR149s the other day and I think it's more logical to say there are two versions with a slight amendment or two to the first over it's production run. The first being the classic B110 and T27 JR149 that everyone knows and loves, i.e. a "canned LS3/5A". The earliest ones (like my first rosewood pair) had a red logo on the base and no fuse. Later the logo was changed to gold and deadsheet and foam was added to the front baffle around the T27. Around this time, but not exactly, a protection fuse was added too, i.e. early gold-logo 149s don't necessarily have a fuse. I'd always been under the impression that the red-logo version had a 15 Ohm crossover and the gold-logo an 11 Ohm one similar to LS3/5As of the time, but this is not true - there was only ever one core design, it just had fuse protection added later. The red-logo ones are more collectable. There are also some difference to the B110s over the years, early ones having bare-metal frames, later ones black etc. All are SP1003, not the later SP1057 used in the Linn Kan etc.

The JR149 MkII is a whole other thing with Focal units and is exceptionally rare and seldom mentioned. Despite this rarity I don't think they are worth much, I guess because of no LS3/5A linage. I've not researched them much as they are of little interest to me - I just wanted a standard pair.

One good tip I picked up from that list is if the metal base is a bit loose and rattly take it off, sit it bottom down on the carpet and give it a couple of thumps in the middle. Don't go over the top, obviously, but just a mm or so convex will give the little alloy thumb-nut thing something to bite against. Mine were still fine to be honest, the bases on these are in remarkably good condition.

Here's a link to my recent thread with photos of my room

http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=134015

Very nice - 149s and an A60 is a classic combo for sure. I'd be interested to hear them wall mounted high - I can see that working. I certainly lived with my first pair happily enough shelf mounted in various rooms, it wasn't until a lot later I got some (really crap) stands. IIRC you could even hang them upside-down from the ceiling on chains in a totally 70s-kitsch manner if you wanted to, but I can't see a reference to that in any of the JR literature I've found online. Listening to my current pair I do prefer them out into the room, ok, it involves trading a little weight and warmth, but they really open up and sound lovely on most stuff. Both is good though, it's all about choosing your own compromise. I see you are running the same Van Damme cable as I am too! Mine is the 1.5mm stuff and seems about perfect as it's about as thick as comfortably fits through the slot in the 149's base.

I'm going to try them in the other room just plonked on the Heresys next, I bet they'll work nicely there too. They are a remarkably easy speaker to place due to the slightly lean balance, lack of porting and really solid cab.


I remember those going through - I let them go as I wanted a wood finish (preferably rosewood) and boxed. I ended up with teak and most of a box! I paid £366, which is still not at the top of the market, though I'm having to pay a lot more for grills than most folk have over recent years.

Are you going to get some proper grills made?

PS I ordered some fresh fuses from teh eBays a couple of days ago as both the ones in place and the spares had tarnished end-caps (luckily the holders are perfectly clean and unblemished). They turned up today and I know I'll be accused of being an audiophool fantasist but I'm convinced it's opened them up a bit more!
 
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Very nice - 149s and an A60 is a classic combo for sure. I'd be interested to hear them wall mounted high - I can see that working. I certainly lived with my first pair happily enough shelf mounted in various rooms, it wasn't until a lot later I got some (really crap) stands. IIRC you could even hang them upside-down from the ceiling on chains in a totally 70s-kitsch manner if you wanted to, but I can't see a reference to that in any of the JR literature I've found online. Listening to my current pair I do prefer them out into the room, ok, it involves trading a little weight and warmth, but they really open up and sound lovely on most stuff. Both is good though, it's all about choosing your own compromise. I see you are running the same Van Damme cable as I am too! Mine is the 1.5mm stuff and seems about perfect as it's about as thick as comfortably fits through the slot in the 149's base.

I'm going to try them in the other room just plonked on the Heresys next, I bet they'll work nicely there too. They are a remarkably easy speaker to place due to the slightly lean balance, lack of porting and really solid cab.



I remember those going through - I let them go as I wanted a wood finish (preferably rosewood) and boxed. I ended up with teak and most of a box! I paid £366, which is still not at the top of the market, though I'm having to pay a lot more for grills than most folk have over recent years.

Are you going to get some proper grills made?

PS I ordered some fresh fuses from teh eBays a couple of days ago as both the ones in place and the spares had tarnished end-caps (luckily the holders are perfectly clean and unblemished). They turned up today and I know I'll be accused of being an audiophool fantasist but I'm convinced it's opened them up a bit more!

Hi Tony, no I'm not getting grills made as my wife prefers the foam that's on the speakers and I'm not really bothered unless it made a difference to the sound?

One of my speakers came with a really dodgy fuse that someone had wound some one amp fuse wire around it and when I touched the fuse looking for the loose connection on the crossover the fuse fell apart but I'm a plumber/heating engineer and those old fuses were fitted inside some of the old 1970s cast iron boiler control boxes so I had one spare which I fitted to the speaker.

I've seen reference to the speakers being hung from the ceiling on chains, think it is in one of the links that's been posted, it's in a pdf of an old JL brochure I think.

The last couple of pairs of speakers that sold on e-bay have gone for over £400 BTW.

Quite liked these speakers stands Tony

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/710-5...0001&campid=5338728743&icep_item=230919666616

Recent speaker sales

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/710-5...0001&campid=5338728743&icep_item=251242030013

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/710-5...0001&campid=5338728743&icep_item=200898969437

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/710-5...0001&campid=5338728743&icep_item=271166761961

Here's a pair of JR150s with extras for sale

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/710-5...0001&campid=5338728743&icep_item=321091975950

Tony
 
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The £411 pair don't look like a pair to me! One has deadsheet and foam around the tweeter, the other doesn't.

This is the pair I won. I don't think I got a bargain as such, but I've always been prepared to pay good money for the right pair. Cosmetically there is very little to fault at all here, even for folk as ridiculously fussy as me, and they certainly seem to be working fine. I'm happy with the price - I'd always set myself an 'up to £500 delivered' budget for a really good pair and I'll come in well under that with the custom-made grills (assuming I've got my measurements right!). I'm happy enough.

As for stands I bet they'd look rather nice on the fluted single-pillar Acoustic Energy stands for the original AE1. No idea how the top=plate would line up, but the rest would look pretty decent I reckon.
 
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For what it's worth, they cost £110 in 1976 and Angus McKenzie quite liked them.

Interestingly the frequency response had the same dip from just over 1000 Hz to 1500 Hz as the LS3/5A. However the JR has a 6db fall off from 10,000-15000 Hz that the LS3/5A hasn't.
 
A nice maclamp the in the old pic;can be worth a few quid now.

Back on thread;can these take a bit of power as I'm looking for something a bit retro for the living room and a pair of these might fit the bill.
 

The photos in that ad aren't even all of the same stands.

The ones with no visible bolts on the top plate are identical to the Chinese ones you used to be able to get from Amazon for $29.95/pair. I've got some under my Rogers LS7Ts and they do okay, considering that I can't be arsed to find something better.

Anyway, buying from that ad you won't know what you're getting until it arrives.
 
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Back on thread;can these take a bit of power as I'm looking for something a bit retro for the living room and a pair of these might fit the bill.

The review I have from 1976 recommends up to 60 watts per channel for classical music, or 35 watts for pop.
 
Back on thread;can these take a bit of power as I'm looking for something a bit retro for the living room and a pair of these might fit the bill.

I'd not recommend them if you want volume or listen in a large room. They are a little 83db efficient speaker with a tiny 110mm bass unit in a sealed cab. I've not attempted to take this pair over about 75-80db for fear of bottoming them out or otherwise harming what is an old and quite hard to find (i.e. expensive) driver, though I remember playing my first pair a good bit louder on occasion (they survived a few parties). Like many little speakers they have that 'worst of all worlds' thing of needing a lot of power because they are so inefficient and can shift so little air, yet not really being able to take it as it's such a small driver and it will either heat up or bottom-out. You just can't fight physics either then or now: high volume, bass extension and scale needs physical size and the ability to displace some air. Simply by asking "can these take a bit of power" probably implies they are not for you! They are more a speaker for jazz, piano, acoustic guitar, voice, string quartets etc at moderate level in a small room IMO.
 
I'd not recommend them if you want volume or listen in a large room. They are a little 83db efficient speaker with a tiny 110mm bass unit in a sealed cab. I've not attempted to take this pair over about 75-80db for fear of bottoming them out or otherwise harming what is an old and quite hard to find (i.e. expensive) driver, though I remember playing my first pair a good bit louder on occasion (they survived a few parties). Like many little speakers they have that 'worst of all worlds' thing of needing a lot of power because they are so inefficient and can shift so little air, yet not really being able to take it as it's such a small driver and it will either heat up or bottom-out. You just can't fight physics either then or now: high volume, bass extension and scale needs physical size and the ability to displace some air. Simply by asking "can these take a bit of power" probably implies they are not for you! They are more a speaker for jazz, piano, acoustic guitar, voice, string quartets etc at moderate level in a small room IMO.

I can get a decent volume with them but Tony is spot on with the type of music which is bascially what I listen too, they're perfect for that sort of music and have a very nice seventies sort of analogue sound but I've been very very surprised at how good they sound with my Arcam CD23T.

My previous speakers totally overwhelmed the room, of course they sounded fantastic with anything that you used them with be that amp, cd player TT etc but they were just too big for my room in every sense.

I would say that the JRs make the sound in my room now a bit surround sound like a good multi-speaker set up as in the sound is quite big and floaty but they are public broadcast speakers, they're meant for halls and churches and such, least that's my understanding of what they were designed for.

Tony
 
Those bipolar Elcaps are foul sounding. I hoiked them out of my Castle Tynes and put in Wilmslow /Ansar polypropylenes to great effect.

Can you give some idea of how they improved the sound of your Castles? The crossovers in my IMFs are full of these caps and I've been putting off an overhaul until I find suitable replacements.
 
For what it's worth, they cost £110 in 1976 and Angus McKenzie quite liked them.

Interestingly the frequency response had the same dip from just over 1000 Hz to 1500 Hz as the LS3/5A. However the JR has a 6db fall off from 10,000-15000 Hz that the LS3/5A hasn't.

That's quite a narrow range for a dip so not going to be too audible IME.
The LS3/5 'dip' is more of a broad saddle if you factor-in the HF and mid bass rise.
It gives them a quite different voicing IMO.
 
I heard that on my pair as a slightly nasal vocal quality.
You can hear it on Radio 4 male presenters and newsreaders.
Very slight though and I think a characteristic of the B110.

Seems to be a bextrene thing as my Rogers exports have it and a little pair of B&W DM23 three-ways which landed this week have it too, and they use a little bextrene mid.

Its a very easy colouration to live with though if well tamed. I don't much like the polyprop alternatives which always seem to sound a bit congested and 'dulled down' by comparison to a good bextrene driver.

I've moved the 149s into system #2 in place of the Heresys for a while and on TV duty this is a little more evident - it's not bad as such, just a very slight colouration on voice the Heresys don't have. Kind of a very slight 'cupped hands around mouth' / slight hardness, plus a slight lift and crispness to the 'crack' of snares (which is rather nice!). I recognise it from both Kans and Isobariks, so I think it's a B110 thing I'm hearing here, not the 149s as such. It seems very narrow-band too as it only effects a few voices (both male and female), and even then only very slightly - I'd not really have noticed it but for the contrast with both the Klipsch and Tannoys, neither of which have even the slightest hint of it. It rings no bell from my first pair either, but I never had those hooked up to a TV.

That's quite a narrow range for a dip so not going to be too audible IME.
The LS3/5 'dip' is more of a broad saddle if you factor-in the HF and mid bass rise.
It gives them a quite different voicing IMO.

Does the more complex LS35/A crossover address the above colouration? Given it was designed as a speech monitor one would hope so!
 
8334480172_197ab50205_o.jpg


That was my bedroom as a 16 year old! I had a lot to learn!

I'm not sure why no-one else has mentioned this, but surely that is a fish on the bed?

Very adventurous for a 16 year old.
 
Fascinating Tony.

I heard these in around 79/80 when a friend had a pair on the end of this cool beast

lecson2.jpg
 
I've moved the 149s into system #2 in place of the Heresys for a while and on TV duty this is a little more evident - it's not bad as such, just a very slight colouration on voice the Heresys don't have. Kind of a very slight 'cupped hands around mouth' / slight hardness, plus a slight lift and crispness to the 'crack' of snares (which is rather nice!). I recognise it from both Kans and Isobariks, so I think it's a B110 thing I'm hearing here, not the 149s as such. It seems very narrow-band too as it only effects a few voices (both male and female), and even then only very slightly - I'd not really have noticed it but for the contrast with both the Klipsch and Tannoys, neither of which have even the slightest hint of it. It rings no bell from my first pair either, but I never had those hooked up to a TV.



Does the more complex LS35/A crossover address the above colouration? Given it was designed as a speech monitor one would hope so!


Yup, its the upper cone main resonance of the B110 which IIRC puts in a peak at around 1khz - might be a tad higher. The LS3/5 crossover tunes it out so it doesn't really show on the forward response but you always hear these resonance even when well hidden IME. So the 3/5 still has it but it's less noticeable. The more recessed mids on the 3/5 also help mask it.

I find that mild colourations like this pass largely unnoticed until you reference them to something without it. Probably find that if you lived with the 149s exclusively it wouldn't bother you at all.
 
...just a very slight colouration on voice the Heresys don't have.

I don't think these words have ever been used in the same sentence before. You're saying the JR149s are less neutral than the Klipschs?
 


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