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retro speakers - tweeter lifespan

stevec67 said:
I don't think that you have to "save up for new things" but buying a more recent used item seems wise.
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It obviously depends on the speakers. Paper cones, hard-edge surrounds, compression drivers etc seem to last very well. My 50+ year old pair of Tannoys certainly still sound great, as do countless far older Tannoys, Klipsch, Altec, JBL etc etc. Some speakers need maintenance in the form of new surrounds, but with the classics that have earned their place in history this is certainly doable and spares are available. Other drivers for the real classics have been remanufactured, T27s, B110s etc. Obviously a lot of speakers never attain this status and can fall by the wayside, but even then many can be saved even if it means buying more than one pair to make a good pair.
 
Tony L said:
It obviously depends on the speakers. Paper cones, hard-edge surrounds, compression drivers etc seem to last very well. My 50+ year old pair of Tannoys certainly still sound great, as do countless far older Tannoys, Klipsch, Altec, JBL etc etc. Some speakers need maintenance in the form of new surrounds, but with the classics that have earned their place in history this is certainly doable and spares are available. Other drivers for the real classics have been remanufactured, T27s, B110s etc. Obviously a lot of speakers never attain this status and can fall by the wayside, but even then many can be saved even if it means buying more than one pair to make a good pair.
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Absolutely. Even my ESL 57s have survived. I'm sure they aren't original, the components won't last that long, but if the parts are available then anything can be repaired. On the other hand a pal's late 80s Scandynas suffered cone rot and he loved them. He wanted to replace the drivers but no go.

The same pal has sold me some TL Pro 9s. They need a bit of work, maybe a driver recon and the cosmetics are, erm, challenged, but they are eminently serviceable.
 
Had ATC scm12 1st generation and Royd RR2 that strangely used the same Vifa tweeters. After ~15 years (rather hot weather) the ferrofluid in both dried out. Exact replacement tweeters are cheap so I did not bother and just replaced. marked Improvement.

Omer.
 
I've always fancied a pair of old classic speakers but some of the reasons above have put me off the idea over the years

I'm also guessing like many things over the years they weren't designed to be around in 40 -50 years time and also like many things there's a whole load of people (usually middle aged men) with a bit of time and disposable income buying these things and restoring them.

A good example of this is two stroke motorcycles from the 70's and 80's , they were by and large built as disposable items but they're still around now (in relatively small numbers) often in better shape then when they left the factory! and worth a fortune!

Quite what this as got to do with tweeter lifespan I'm not sure :D
 
Far more common problem with old tweeters is that they go open circuit. This happens due to one or both of the following: coil tails can corrode, and also fracture where they leave the coil and run to the terminals. Usually this can be repaired. Some of the more up-market tweeters, eg Scan, Morel, have braids soldered to the coil ends, which is a much better arrangement, but still can fail at the soldered joints. So a dead tweeter that measures open circuit may be salvageable, but you won't know till you pull it apart.
 
Another problem with old tweeters is that some of them were coated with sticky dope. They tend to collect dust, and when they get grungy they sound like they look.
 
stevec67 said:
Things like glues last for about 20-25 years. Lots of rubber items do too. I had an old pair of fell running shoes, still looked OK, bought in the 90s and used a fair bit, then stored for a while. I took them out a couple of years ago. They fell apart. The soles literally fell off. Similar materials are/were used in speakers and will go the same way. I don't think that you have to "save up for new things" but buying a more recent used item seems wise. It's like used cars. Buy one 8-10 years old and you can expect it to be reasonably fault-free for 5 years or so. After 15 years, hmm. So would I buy a 10 year old car? Yes, I recently did. Would I buy a 20 year old one, or 25 years old? No thanks. Unless it's ridiculously cheap.
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Shoes falling apart are the least of my problems when I go fell-running!
 
What's to go wrong in a tweeter? I'd wager that if you can get a new voice coil and ferrofluid (if applicable) most can be rescued.
 
pocketkitchen said:
Shoes falling apart are the least of my problems when I go fell-running!
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Yes, tough sport. Made tougher when the soles come off both shoes on Place Fell and you have to go home barefoot. I'm not fit enough to do much of it right now, just doing local valley runs, but come fewer restrictions in the summer I hope to get out more.
 
foxwelljsly said:
What's to go wrong in a tweeter? I'd wager that if you can get a new voice coil and ferrofluid (if applicable) most can be rescued.
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to be honest, anything relying on bonded joints can call apart, see the shoes above. As you say, everything is repairable given available parts, but it can be challenging just the same.
 
Yank said:
The old Audax soft domes can have a limited lifespan too. The sticky dope they used on the cloth dome could lose its physical properties over time, and also attracted dust.
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Yes, 'carpet dome' would be a more accurate description for many of those today :)
 
Vinny said:
The problem can only be evaporation - wrap them as tightly as reasonably possible in a few layers of foil and they ought to last many years.

The same goes for storing rubber - that deteriorates due to attack by ozone - wrap in something aluminised - superb gas barrier properties of aluminium fims are why so much food is wrapped in aluminised plastic fims (usually polyprop')
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Around 1996 I asked my speaker repair guy to recone some Kef T27 and Kef B110's. The cones came each in a tin can with some decent aluminium tape around the opening edges that had to be cut through.

I'd some Monitor Audio speakers, bought in Singapore, that had hardened woofer/mid surrounds after 12 years. I don't know if they were a lookalike clone, who knows, was not as alert to those things in those days.

Trouble is that copper (as used in the wiring) hardens over time, i.e. it gets brittle. I once tried to restore a Japanese Ham transceiver and gave up after a while. All the wiring had hardened so much after approx 30 years that as soon as you touched it they would break off at the solder point. And the wiring was such a mess that it went in the "too hard" basket to replace all the wiring.
 
fegs said:
I've always fancied a pair of old classic speakers but some of the reasons above have put me off the idea over the years

I'm also guessing like many things over the years they weren't designed to be around in 40 -50 years time and also like many things there's a whole load of people (usually middle aged men) with a bit of time and disposable income buying these things and restoring them.

A good example of this is two stroke motorcycles from the 70's and 80's , they were by and large built as disposable items but they're still around now (in relatively small numbers) often in better shape then when they left the factory! and worth a fortune!

Quite what this as got to do with tweeter lifespan I'm not sure :D
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As with anything old, classic or vintage it'll greatly depend on the quality of the materials used in the original construction, doesn't matter if we're talking cars, bikes, furniture or speakers and electronics.
Then it will greatly depend on how it's been treated, maintained or stored by the owner(s). Another consideration is the repairs or bodges that have been carried out, there's alot of DFR jobs about.:rolleyes:
As with certain makes of Classic cars most of the 'Good condition' classic bikes including the 2 strokes you mention have been shipped from overseas from a much drier and warmer climate.
 
My c1989-90 Tannoy DC2000s and Rega Ela Mk1s are still going strong, although I retweetered the Elas as both drivers were stove in (hence why I got them so cheap).

I do think the Tannoys could do with new caps, but not sure I want to risk taking them apart to rebuild the crossovers!! Don't want to kill my mint condition £15 bargains...
 
Darren L said:
As with anything old, classic or vintage it'll greatly depend on the quality of the materials used in the original construction, doesn't matter if we're talking cars, bikes, furniture or speakers and electronics.
Then it will greatly depend on how it's been treated, maintained or stored by the owner(s). Another consideration is the repairs or bodges that have been carried out, there's alot of DFR jobs about.:rolleyes:
As with certain makes of Classic cars most of the 'Good condition' classic bikes including the 2 strokes you mention have been shipped from overseas from a much drier and warmer climate.
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Even if you do ship it from a warmer and drier climate, too old is too old. There is a You Tube video about someone who buys a 40 year old Honda motorbike in a crate. It's been dry stored in the USA since 1980 and never been out. Brakes are toast, most of the seals have collapsed. Tyres, dead. Elastomers have a finite life. Those in speakers are no exception.
 
stevec67 said:
Even if you do ship it from a warmer and drier climate, too old is too old. There is a You Tube video about someone who buys a 40 year old Honda motorbike in a crate. It's been dry stored in the USA since 1980 and never been out. Brakes are toast, most of the seals have collapsed. Tyres, dead. Elastomers have a finite life. Those in speakers are no exception.
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^^^
Truth - A long time ago I discovered that brake fluid is hygroscopic and that if it is not replaced regularly (normally every 3 years) the seals deteriorate - I'd brake failure on both a 5 and a 15 year old car. Brother had oil seals going on a "pre-loved" 6 year old car that had not been maintained.

Even if there is still enough thread on my tires and "they look fine" I still replace them after 5 years.
 
Yank said:
Sometimes this happens because the people who assembled it nicked the wire when they stripped it.
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Sometimes is the right word. But not in this case, just brittle copper. Actually Japanese made copper at the time was known for it, German made was rated as fine.
 
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