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Restoring a Thorens TD124 Mk II SME3009 Shure V15 Type III

It is interesting to follow this thread through. I guess I'm a little bit late to the party. While the projects within this thread were ongoing I was documenting a project of my own: Link here:
http://www.theanalogdept.com/2128.htm

Here's my dog in the fight: #2729 (an early TD124)
td124zetadl103rss.JPG


I've found that it is fairly easy to upgrade the qualities of the DL-103R. Of course, by the time one buys a new DL-103/103R, and installs the custom Uwe body, then has SoundSmith retip with a ruby cantilevered fine-line stylus assembly, it not only sounds very much upgraded, but its cost just went up into a category where there is some serious competition. Still; if not a giant killer, then The old Denon definitely is interesting to listen to. That said, I'd absolutely love to audition a Koetsu Urushi (made by Sugano's hands) on this arm (Zeta). Cost and availability prohibits such flights of fancy.

I still mourn for my Shelter 501-II. It appears now that the adhesive holding the cantilever in place decided to become unstuck. This happened before I could find out what it sounded like on the Zeta tonearm. I had anticipated a happy union there. As soon as I can get Peter Lederman to have a look at my Shelter (about 2 months) I'll be able to try that out.

Another view:
td124zetadl103rss_1.JPG
Please pardon my dust. I fired the maid.:rolleyes:

There are still a few tweaks and upgrades left for me to try. The obvious one is the costly one, a custom machined brass flywheel. (slobber/drool) And one that we all seem to ignore, those little rubber pads on top of the flywheel that both isolate and grip the upper thin shell aluminum platter. These get old and hard. Mats. Anyone experiment with different platter mat ideas on the TD124?

On the other hand, I can say that I know what this deck sounds like while situated over massive amounts of slate. Which I'm not throwing away any time soon..:)
 
Lovely 124, I suspect you win pfm's 'heaviest deck' category! I bet it sounds real good with the Zeta too.

Tony.
 
Tony L said:
Lovely 124, I suspect you win pfm's 'heaviest deck' category! I bet it sounds real good with the Zeta too.

Tony.
Click to expand...
Great T/T but probably a mere lightweight compared to an EMT 950 at around 80 kg or an SP10 in the back breaking Obsidian plinth lol

Papst are still going, as far as I know. Not sure if they are still making these motors but they are big in the computer/ OEM electrical business selling fans
 
Thanks Tony. The Zeta seems quite happy working for the Thorens.:D

Great T/T but probably a mere lightweight compared to an EMT 950 at around 80 kg or an SP10 in the back breaking Obsidian plinth lol

Papst are still going, as far as I know. Not sure if they are still making these motors but they are big in the computer/ OEM electrical business selling fans
Click to expand...

Hmmmm. EMT950. Now there is a worthwhile pursuit, for those with deep enough pockets.......or lucky enough to find one in an estate sale for cheap/free.

Interestingly, Thorens went into a partnership with EMT during the second half of the 1960's when they moved from Switzerland into Germany's Black Forest area. A fruitful period that saw many different belt drive designs, including the TD125, 126, 320, 2001/3001 etc.

re: SP10 with Obsidian. I wasn't aware that the Obsidian plinth was particularly heavy.
album_pic.php
Looks really cool though.

re: Papst. If you google the name there will be references to their famous ausenlaufer motors being used in high-end radio controlled racers. Apparently the motor is considered some sort of advantage in that context. For turntable purposes, it is another story.

I have one of the 60 hz versions of the so-called "replacement" motor that Thorens began to offer. I suppose it was admirable that Thorens thought enough of their legacy customers to supply parts for a turntable that they no longer made. (TD124) But they did.
Here's a pic:
DSC_3608.jpg

I tried it in one of my TD124's. For my notes on this experiment here is a link:
http://www.theanalogdept.com/papst_aussenlaufer.htm

-Steve
 
user510 said:
Hmmmm. EMT950. Now there is a worthwhile pursuit, for those with deep enough pockets.......or lucky enough to find one in an estate sale for cheap/free.
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One of my friends found one in a skip outside a TV studio in Liverpool. I've not seen it, but apparently it's mostly complete. Might have been a 948, I can't remember, though certainly a direct drive EMT.

I tried it in one of my TD124's. For my notes on this experiment here is a link:
http://www.theanalogdept.com/papst_aussenlaufer.htm
Click to expand...

I remember reading that when I was going through my initial 'learn everything about the 124' phase. Did you ever get to try it with a fancy PSU? Luckily my E50 seems in great shape, I've stripped it right down and serviced it, I was rather pleased to read the Papst upgrade may not be one!

Tony.
 
One of my friends found one in a skip outside a TV studio in Liverpool. I've not seen it, but apparently it's mostly complete. Might have been a 948, I can't remember, though certainly a direct drive EMT.
Click to expand...

In my dreams! A 948 would do just fine. There was also a smaller direct drive from EMT called the 938. And then a Thorens version of the 938 called the 528.

I'd consider myself lucky to even see any of these.

re: Pabst motor controller. I know of an individual that has designed and built some 3-phase motor controllers for a very high-end idler drive turntable. However production is very slow and the price is outside my realm of possibility. I figure I'll get around to putting my own together some day. In a dream, of course.:rolleyes:

Actually, I think the E50 is the perfect motor for the TD124. After all, they were designed for each-other. It just needs to be kept in good maintenance and very much benefits from the MK2 double motor grommets.

The Pabst, I have some plans for a belt drive application once I get a suitable 3-phase controller for it.



-Steve
 
Hi Steve There were 3 Obsidian plinths. The heaviest one, with a Mk 3 fitted, weighs close to 40 kg total plus the psu, plus the arm etc. Heavy enough!
 
There were 3 Obsidian plinths. The heaviest one, with a Mk 3 fitted, weighs close to 40 kg total plus the psu, plus the arm etc. Heavy enough!
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Ah.. the mk3. For that kind of money, it could well be an EMT. No slouch for sure. And well above the Thorens position within the audio food chain.

hmmm. 40 kg converts to ~88lbs

Actually, I didn't know I was entering the "heaviest tt" competition. However this slate that's holding up my TD124 isn't exactly light. Easily, all the pieces, less stand, will weigh over 100 lbs.

I'm not convinced that mass alone is the secret to good sounding turntables. It must be far more complex than that. On that note, the slate seems to soak up surface borne resonances quite readily and without adding any sonic signature to the turntable that I can detect.

On the other hand, if the goal is to keep the TT standing solidly and un-perturbed, then the massive/heavy base likely helps. I know that on my suspended floor, adding weight around the tt slows/dampens the bounce frequency of the floor itself. So, in this particular environment, the mass works to some benefit.

-Steve
 
Black is back!

4795393665_6cd247fac1.jpg


4796029832_c9211e6a5b.jpg


Ok, final piece of the puzzle. The new plinth was installed a while back and its all settled. This plinth is a solid massy CLD one like the Schopper design but with an additional well cutout on the underside (see earlier pics) to accommodate a modified Naim Prefix... I modded the Prefix to take a 4 channel Epona PSU that independently powers both EQ and Preamp sections Left and Right -- which sits at the foot of the rack below.

In addition I have a Target Wallshelf fitted with a 50mm lump of machined slate bought way back in the 1980s which is very securely bolted to the wall so the entire thing is mass-loaded connected to a stone wall. Next thing to get made is the Perspex dust cover.

Sound is terrific. really detailed and punchy and zero noise. Its now got that uncanny silence as the needle hits the record that one gets with a really quiet suspended deck.

Aside from a spot of paint behind the rack (and maybe a quick black spray of the wallshelf), I think that's it!
 
Looking good.
From time to time I have wondered about using one of the Morch arms on a TT like the TD124. I can't tell from the photo if that is a UP-4 or DP-6.

Have you tried the plinth without mushrooms yet? I would think that a cld plinth that is standing on 50mm of slate should have very good vibe dampening qualities.

Nice solid looking mount. That TT should really sing.

-Steve
 
Prefer with mushrooms than without, it improves airflow for the motor. Sonically very little in it otherwise.
Its a Mørch UP4.
 
yes - gerroff you had my last one and you'll have to rip it from my cold dead fingers...
 
fox said:
Prefer with mushrooms than without, it improves airflow for the motor. Sonically very little in it otherwise.
Its a Mørch UP4.
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Hi Fox,

Gotta say it's looking superb, crikey it looked good enough on page 1 when it was straight out of the loft.

Anyway a question regarding the mushrooms, the chassis appears to be sitting so much higher above the plinth than normal, certainly higher than mine, which were replaced not too long ago. Were they a special order perhaps so that you could get the extra airflow?

Do you have anybody in mind to supply you with a decent dust cover? I can really recommend the company who made mine. If I could handle the posting of photos on here I'd be able to let you have a look, but I've never been able to master it, even though a number of pfmer's have tried to help me previously. Still if you'd like to pm me your email address I'll send you a couple of photos of my slated up 124 and it's quite nice dust cover. I can just about manage to send photo attachments via email.:D

Cheers.......Dave
 
fox said:
Prefer with mushrooms than without, it improves airflow for the motor. Sonically very little in it otherwise.
Its a Mørch UP4.
Click to expand...

This is a long thread and I can't recall reading if you have cleaned/lubed the motor yet. If so, then there will be a need for two, possibly three bushing alignment sessions. Otherwise, the motor tends to run a little bit too warm when the bushings don't have good alignment to the shaft.

Basically, it goes like this.
Assemble and lube the motor. Align the upper and lower bushings to the shaft for minimum motor noise. Listening with a mechanics stethoscope, of course.

Run it that way for about a week.

Then have another motor bushing alignment session. Again using the stethoscope to determine optimal bushing alignment by achieving the alignment that produces the least amount of motor vibrations.

Once this is done to good effect, the motor tends to run cool enough to leave your fingers on it for an extended amount of time without discomfort.

-Steve
 
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