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Resonant energy transfer

Discussion in 'audio' started by John, Dec 28, 2021.

  1. Space is the Place

    Space is the Place pfm Member

    I have some some sorbathane pads between the plinth of the speaker and the speakers, normally the speakers are bolted strait to the plinth, it's now suspended by the pads the bolts left loose, it feeds less energy into the floor and makes quite a difference cleaning up the bass frequencies, i've also tried resting the plinths on more sorbathane pads, double sorbathane! which makes everything subjectively smoother sounding.
  2. chord

    chord pfm Member

    It's a hifi; everything is true; and the opposit too.
    But fact that there is a 'light revolution' against the mass-belivers.
    But will never have a good USD/kg ratio, what is the only truth on the resonance-field... :)

  3. John

    John Rack’em Up!

    I was reading that each shelve on the Sistrum Rhythm Stand weighs 30 lbs each and that is with all the slots built into it in order to allow top spike location for all size equipment. That’s some “sheet metal”.
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2021
  4. Arkless Electronics

    Arkless Electronics Trade: Amp design and repairs.

    "John" is Piers Corbyn and I claim my prize!:D
    kensalriser likes this.
  5. Durmbo

    Durmbo not French

    The best thing I ever did with my hi/fi was to lose the ugly purpose-made rack I’d believed in for forever & have it all on a regular wooden entertainment unit. It sounds no different & looks much better.
  6. DimitryZ

    DimitryZ pfm Member

    It looks like 5mm thick which can be called sheet or plate. BTW, "specialty steel" (used to promote the design for sales) would offer exactly zero benefit in this application (though the phrase is unspecific and meaningless). All steels have the same modulus and density, so they behave identically for small level excitations. They differ by strength, which is not actually challenged in this application.

    If one is to perform a modal hammer test, modal survey or modal FEA on this object, they will find that it has LOTS of resonant frequencies, from a couple hundred Hertz and going to infinity. It will also exhibit very low damping - typically between 2 and 5%.

    Physically, it acts like receiver and amplifier of both acoustic and mechanical vibration, which in turn, excites the chassis of your equipment. Depending on upper cones position relative to the "legs" it may offer a smidgen of low frequency isolation.
  7. John

    John Rack’em Up!

    Thanks for the info. I think the “LOTS of resonant frequencies” is part of the design and intention from what I can tell. I think the upper spikes that contact bottom of the equipment are suppose to be located near the transformer and circuit boards and tuned to your preferences. The feet that come with the equipment are to be removed as they absorb vibration.
  8. eevo1969

    eevo1969 pfm Member

    I’ve only quoted a few of your condescending and obtuse posts but what shines through is your ignorance of others lack of knowledge, what is the view like from up there?

    Some of us do not have “undergrad level knowledge” and do the best we can with the limited intelligence
    that we’ve been granted but please carry on taking the piss at every opportunity that presents itself because I’m sure that you are going the right way to help the few of us, well the two of us that don’t have a understanding the problem “get it”

    Thank you.
  9. Del monaco

    Del monaco Del Monaco

    I have some acoustic steel sheets that came with a Custom Design rack I was given. To be honest I can’t really hear any difference when they’re on or when they are off.I have tried to discern differences using what I think are good quality recordings.
  10. Purité Audio

    Purité Audio Trade: Purite Audio

    Loudspeakers vibrate all the time, it is up to the loudspeaker’s designer to ensure that energy is not stored which might lead to an audible resonance.
  11. sonddek

    sonddek Trade: SUPATRAC

    Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. I reckon I have heard the introduction of isolation (inner tube) under a turntable cause bass to become tighter and cleaner, with more abrupt cadence and pitch more easily perceived. This is what one might expect from a reduction in acoustic feedback. I think such benefits are most noticeable in bass. Not surprising, and not rocket science or energy mysticism.
    sq225917 likes this.
  12. Jim Audiomisc

    Jim Audiomisc pfm Member

    In one sense you are correct. Any company that manages to go on selling its products and making a profit, etc, is doing 'something' 'right'. i.e. it continues to make a profit and keep the incomes of those involved flowing. Plus also as a side-benefit, making many customers happy.

    But there are some snags if you try to stretch that further, as evicenced by many examples in home audio.

    The reality is that even a slight movement of the head, or equipment, or a change in volume, or speaker unit temperature, or..., or..., or..., can cause an "audible change". As will someone's expectation, or having just listened to something - which can *physically* alter the ears, not just mental changes in what you listen 'for' - etc, etc.

    Add in that all this will vary from person to person, case to case, etc. And people will try something and 'hear a change' - or not - due to a cloud of causes. Not always for the reason they assume. e.g. people rarely use a head-clamp to keep their ears in *exactly* the same place when doing comparisons having altered something else. :-]

    So they may then decide something is an 'improvement' - but in practice other variables may actually more significant but not identified. And the effect of a chosen 'solution' might be just as well done by other, simpler, means they didn't include in the comparison.

    I can't comment on this specific case. But over the years I've seen countless claims for 'improvement devices' which fall into the category I came to call MOOM - Mountains Out Of Molehills. For myself I test them simply by moving my head a bit, or moving something like the speakers or furniture a bit, or opening/closing the room door, or changing the volume a couple of dB. If the percieved advantage of the new 'device' is bigger than those effects then I wonder if there is a simpler/DIY way to do it. If there is, or if the other changes swamp the audible effect of the device, I decide it isn't something I could be bothered to use unless it cost essentially zip.

    So I'm quite happy to experiment with things like carpet tiles or coins, or the 'bumper buttons' or rubbery 'feet' you can buy in DIY shops, etc. Cheap, and sometimes worth using. Spikes can be useful for some speakers on some floors in some places. But not always for the reason people usually assume. It may be because it causes a flexible floor to act as a subsidiary LF source, and *may* give better LF. Depends entirely on the case. But I've never really taken to the belief that spikes 'isolate'. Carpet tiles or soggy rubbery materials do that OK in my experience.

    YMMV though. 8-]
    tuga and irb like this.
  13. awkwardbydesign

    awkwardbydesign Officially Awesome

    Be careful what you call "bass". An awful lot of it is actually much higher frequencies. Many years ago when I suspended the mid and HF units in one of my builds, it was the "bass" that cleaned up. They were providing most of the "bass" detail, it transpired.
  14. h.g.

    h.g. Retired

    I have always made it clear that my interest in "audiophile foo" threads is why some audiophiles believe nonsense from dubious sources in preference to the type of information they were taught at school from reliable sources. I am normally just as baffled at the start of a thread as the end. Unusually I have made some significant progress in this one which revealed a false assumption I was making about what everyone knew about science from schooling in their early teenage years. That lead to a few other related observations making more sense and a better overall grasp of why many audiophiles believe nonsense from dubious sources. Excellent stuff.

    What seems to have been different in this thread was that I was slow to recognise contributions coming for experienced promoters of audiophile foo rather than consumers. I had previously taken little interest in the foo itself or those that promote it except for a brief exercise after first retaking an interest in home audio.

    Very useful not least in providing me with an income over my working life and will hopefully soon provide a top-up income now I am semi-retired. Real knowledge rather than the cosmetic pseudo form that is the subject of this thread is well worth possessing. It's a pity the time and effort means it can only be done in a very limited number of areas.

    If you look at my posting history you will see that I have very rarely teased ignorance because of a genuine interest in why some audiophiles believe in nonsense from unreliable sources. If you tease consuming audiophiles with conflicting facts they can't refute they get frustrated, stop communicating "how they see it" and hit out. Not useful. Those promoting nonsense tend to behave slightly differently due to not being as engaged in either the conversation or the nonsense.

    Teasing ignorance is of course a form of bullying if stretched beyond using it to reveal ignorance in an emotive way. It can be useful though because people emotionally attached to nonsense are likely to be almost immune to conflicting facts presented in a dry fashion.

    If it helps, given the progress made in my understanding of audiophiles in this thread I am likely to take a lot less interest in future "foo" threads. On the other hand, I now have less reason to be tolerant of foo beyond basic politeness. I should of course thank the OP and Mr Pig for a very interesting and useful thread.
    tuga likes this.
  15. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    Please post a brief synopsis of your achievements in the audio field, e.g. what products or services you have personally designed or offered that are widely respected as a benchmark in the field. Without such evidence you are just another random blow-hard troll thread-crapper standing far closer to the exit of this forum than you may currently realise.
    sonddek and John like this.
  16. Ian G

    Ian G pfm Member

  17. tuga

    tuga Legal Alien

    Perhaps you are reading too much into it...
    Our ignorance makes us easy prey.
    JimmyB likes this.
  18. h.g.

    h.g. Retired

    I choose to post anonymously (well semi-anonymously given a couple of people have spotted me although not here on PFM as far as I am aware) for the usual reasons. It is your forum to run as you see fit and if I am not welcome I am happy enough to move on.
  19. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    The ball is in your court. If you choose to be a rude, condescending patronising bore then you add nothing of value to the site. If you had any real credibility I doubt you would be throwing your little ego rocks from behind a pseudonym and junk email address. Be absolutely clear, I do not need you here. I do not care. You have wasted two posts-worth of my time today alone.
    Dowser and Del monaco like this.
  20. John

    John Rack’em Up!

    I stumbled upon postings on the Audiogon forum by Ken Lyon who back in the early 2000’s ran a company GreaterRanges/Neuance. The Neuance platform seems similar to the platform made by Symposium but appears to use laminate rather than stainless steel. I think he was also a contributor on the old Exposure forum.

    He was a fan of Mana Acoustic stands but recommended replacing the glass shelves with his platforms. I’ve been enjoying reading his take on things as I have progressed in that direction.
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2022

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