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Rega turntable speed

Load variation is a thing for belt drives.

Back in the good old days when turntables were subject to full bench testing as part of the review, load variation was quoted in the results.
I just had a dive into the old HFC turntable review books from 1980 and had a look at the results from Micro, Rega, Linn, Michell, Pioneer and Thorens.
Load variation ranged from 0.15% - 0.40%, with the Linn LP12 giving the best result and the inexpensive Pioneer the worst.

Is it significant at this level?
Well, enough to be clearly measurable, audibility will vary depending on who is listening but for the vast majority of folk I suspect the better results are not audible.
 
matt j said:
How can it be significant?

No maker of a TT would be able to provide a constant speed stability with the plethora of carts on the market, they'd have to caveat any performance figures with a get out of jail card like "performance figures measured with xyz cartridge, performance may vary if others used" basically restricting you to one single cart if you want to achieve the stated performance of the deck.

I have no problem assuming that the speed may alter for the split second that the stylus hits the groove, but once the flywheel effect and torque of the motor have overcome it then it has to be negligible.
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With a NA turntable equipped with a Wave Mechanic PSU you place the paper disc with the markings for the strobe on the platter then place a 33.3 rpm 10" record on top, spin the platter, place the stylus on the record then using the strobe lamp and the pot on the PSU you can fine tune the platter speed to exactly 33.3 rpm, simples. So in theory and practice there's no reason why you can't have the record spinning at 33.3 rpm with the stylus in the groove.
 
Tony L said:
PS I don’t know enough about current Rega decks to know for sure, but looking at the chart my guess is the RP10 either has a higher torque motor or some electrical load-sensing that will keep it in the tiny green zone in use.
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Double pulley and twin belts on those models so the motor/platter coupling is tighter. Same on the current P8/10.
 
Rega recently released a new superbelt that improves speed stability on all decks and can be had for short money.
 
Belt driven TT's are traditionally driven by synchronous motors. The speed of a synchronous motor is locked to the AC frequency (50 Hz/60 Hz) feeding it. It runs at that speed under load until the load is to much and it stops. It DOES NOT change it's speed under load (that's why uncle Ed choose such a motor when designing the AR TT). There might be some dynamic wow from the loading of a cart, but there simply can't be a prolonged slowing.

DD turntables isn't automatically imune against dynamic wow, early ones that didn't have quartz PLL locking could very well wow considerably for different reasons.

BTW. I'm an audiophile and I always hated DD turntables. At least since the disastrous result after my brother bought one in 1978.
 
The motor speed is constant (at least for a given mains frequency and that does vary, which is why mains driven strobes are a waste of time)
The belt effective pulley diameters do vary with load, so there is real speed variation even before slip happens
 
Robert said:
Is it significant at this level? Well, enough to be clearly measurable, audibility will vary depending on who is listening but for the vast majority of folk I suspect the better results are not audible.
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I suspect any keen listener will hear it but not necessarily be aware of what it is they are hearing. A speed instability may not obvious as such but when it is improved most listeners report a corresponding sound quality improvement.

DimitryZ said:
Really impressive engineering! There are some excellent chemical and industrial engineers in Rega's employ!
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I think Roy is good at rooting around and finding clever people to help him. They may work with universities?
 
My old P3 measures and sounds much better than my older STD 305S, which was having the wobbling problems that plague suspended decks with fixed motors.
I don't have perfect pitch, but could hear the wow and flutter on keyboard instruments
 
I would never buy a DD turntable, have used LP12, Pink/Funk & Rega through decades.
That was my norm before 2018/2019 when I was offered a 1210GR - a reliable deck which is much better than expected, still have a Rega though.
 
davidsrsb said:
My old P3 measures and sounds much better than my older STD 305S, which was having the wobbling problems that plague suspended decks with fixed motors.
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From a speed stability perspective a suspended deck is an inherently bad idea. If you can crack it and get the speed good enough there is a magic to the sound but I agree that even a lowly Planar3 has an easier time of turning at the right speed.
 
My STD was suffering from decay of some of the foam and plastic parts in the suspension. I have come to believe that all suspended decks actually depend on fiddly lead dressing to get some needed stability, so they are not as isolated as you expect
 
davidsrsb said:
I have come to believe that all suspended decks actually depend on fiddly lead dressing to get some needed stability, so they are not as isolated as you expect
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Yip. I think this is exactly right. The arm cable acts like a panhard rod and limits lateral movement on the suspension.
 
MusicMiles said:
Got into an argument with a member of Steve Hoffman Forum in the thread titled
"Audiophiles Once Loved Direct Drive, Now They Seem To Hate It" about Rega having a .2% wow & flutter tolerance on their lower end turntables and I asked him to prove it. Another member chimed in backing up this claim and provided images from Michael Fremer's Rega tour videos of a couple years ago showing clip boards on the wall in a QC area clearly denoting tolerances going all the way up to .3%. I really couldn't argue with that and became PO'd with the person who posted it. Needless to say I had to eat my words.

I really love my Rega turntable, I think it sounds incredible and I've experienced none of the issues that Rega's turntables are widely accused of on internet forums but trying to take pride in it and defend its's worthiness among other turntables in the marketplace (Technics for one) is absolutely impossible since people are able easily able to drudge up any amount of muck on them they look for on the internet.

I'm not going to try to defends Rega's philosophy any more and I'm seriously considering not purchasing anymore Rega product in the future.

Roy Gandy and Paul Darwin can stick up for themselves.
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After reading all of your posts I kind of feel a little childish as if I crossed my arms and stuck out my bottom lip and pouted but your posts restored my confidence and were quite affirming. I also like the course this thread has taken and its a nice diversion from the nasty and hateful nature of some of the Hoffman threads.

I posted this here believing that your community has a closer connection to the Rega one and I felt it an appropriate place to vent and based on your responses I believe it was. I also waited to respond as it appears you were enjoying the exchange and I want it to continue.

As in our patronage Mr. Gandy, Mr. Darwin and Rega of course deserve our support.
 
Thank you MusicMiles, I held back from making any comment as it was apparent that ultimately you liked your turntable and the only problems appeared to be from "keyboard warriors" who chose to attack you and your views on another (non UK) and dare I say it, occasionally confrontational, forum. Sincere thanks for your continued support of Rega and our products, very best, PD.
 
davidsrsb said:
Strathclyde Turntable Developments should have put a bit more thought into their name
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To be fair back then STD's were not called STD's they were called VD.
When I rebuilt a STD 305m 25 years ago the foam inside the springs had rotted and was crumbling away, I just removed it.
 
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