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Rega planar 3 or old lp12

Discussion in 'audio' started by worz, Jun 3, 2021.

  1. cre009

    cre009 pfm Member

    The sub chassis has changed quite a lot.

    The first couple of thousand or so LP12s from 73 to 74 had a dual ribbed sub chassis with a cross rib.

    They then dropped the cross rib.

    Fairly quickly after that came the welded strengthening strap John is referring to and then eventually the bonded strengthening strap version.

    After that came the Cirkus version and eventually Magik, Kore and Keel.

    The outer platter has changed at least 3 times. From 73 to around 76 these were about 0.6kg heavier than modern outer platters so different centre of gravity.

    The inner platter has also changed at least 3 times with early ones having a longer spindle and ride height. Modern outer platters do not fit the early inner platters.
     
  2. lambo

    lambo pfm Member

    Hi Colin
    I too had an lp12 for 35 years and kept up with the upgrades all second hand til eventually I had a klimax lp12 except for (akurate Radikal ) which I had to sell due to Covid
    I have a 1996 p3 now with goldring 1042 on a mana clamp and today I asked my wife to come and listen to a couple of tracks for exactly that reason
    I really do think it’s because I expect nothing much from it and yet every record just sounds great whereas with the linn I was always wondering “is that right “ what would this upgrade give me “
    So yes an lp12 may be better but I actually play a lot more now !!
     
    ossy, Snufkin, Simon s and 1 other person like this.
  3. Mr Pig

    Mr Pig ^'- -'^

    I'm looking at LP12s but I'm very, very reluctant to get back onto that merry-go-round.

    I've had a few P1s here and really enjoyed them. Like you say, you can hear the flaws and limitations but your expectations are lower so you forgive them and just listen to the music. If you spend thousands on a turntable you expect perfection and you can't have it, because the records are far from perfect.
     
  4. lambo

    lambo pfm Member

    Exactly!
    But it’s difficult to see it when you have a turntable that to buy new costs more than your car :D
     
    ossy likes this.
  5. Mr Pig

    Mr Pig ^'- -'^

    Yes it is. I reckon there are thousands of people with very expensive Hi-Fi systems they rarely use or which don't work very well. Systems which only play select music, if anything. I'd say that most of the very expensive systems I've heard were poor.
     
  6. torstoi

    torstoi pfm Member

    For me the key part of getting a good system is understanding.
    The fun is beyond the ability to just drop massive amounts of money into something,
    but rather understand what is missing, why does it not work, how do others make their's work
    or..why does a particular deck sound as good as it does ?

    Unlike many other hypes, the popularity of Lencos is imo absolutely deserved.
    And one key part of what makes a Lenco sound so great even with or despite still having a very basic original arm,
    is it's platter bearing.
    An idler from Dual is very similar in construction, but it fails to sound nearly as great as a Lenco from the off.
    And the key difference between those two is the center bearing quality.

    Totally nuts OT again you may say, but I'm getting the curve..

    I got a bespoke handmade new bearing for the L75 from a guy in Switzerland (he asked 60€s...yes.)
    Comparing that to a Circus is a bad joke.

    So, to me it's not unlikely that some people started asking themseves how such a basic looking construct as the Lenco can sound so good and why.
    The answer is above and in fact the Karousel has a striking similarity to my new Lenco bearing.
    It doesn't cost 60€s though for sure..which is why I keep saying understanding is the key.

    If the vfm is good enough for you, is up to each individually.
    It's not forbidden or questionable to spend money on whatever you like.

    What I don't understand though is people who fail to draw a healthy line of how far to take their LP12 in their individual situation & then kind of compensate that by trying to talk people out of the LP12 altogether.
     
  7. linnfomaniac83

    linnfomaniac83 I bet you can’t wheelie a unicycle!

    I understand the neurosis that some people get with them (and other upgradable platforms) but really, just listen before you buy and buy the deck you like. That’s what I did and I’m contented with it (although mine is a fairly well specified deck).

    PS, I’ve also owned a P1, I have an RP3 here and also a couple of Pro-Ject decks, they all sound decent, I can and do enjoy listening to all of them... the LP12 is the one which makes the hairs stand up on the back of my neck though, albeit at a very significant price premium.
     
    Mr Pig and torstoi like this.
  8. mjkelshaw

    mjkelshaw pfm Member

    Apologies in advance if my question is too much of a diversion, but as I've found that I currently prefer using a Goldring G99, albeit with upgraded bearing, to the other t/tables (401,TD124 II) in my 'listening cupboard upstairs, or my LP12 downstairs. May I ask if further details of this bearing are available for general consumption?

    Regards
    Mike Kelshaw
     
    torstoi likes this.
  9. sideshowbob

    sideshowbob 47 Lab Rat

    Suspended decks - not just LP12s - can be a recipe for anxiety (have I set it up just so? Maybe I should tweak it again). I spent hours doing that when I had a Gyro. Sometimes simplicity removes the desire to fiddle.
     
    rstloup, Robn, torstoi and 1 other person like this.
  10. david ellwood

    david ellwood Kirabosi Kognoscente

    This is exactly why the latest crop of F1 cars are being developed without a suspension.
     
  11. pickwickpapers

    pickwickpapers ‘It wasn’t the wine, ... It was the salmon.‘

    I remember getting a bearing servicing kit from a guy in Switz for my lenco 75 (ended up making it worse, but that would have been my cack-handedness tbh) - I think the details were on the Lenco Heaven forum if you're not a member of that already?
    It's years ago from my pov, and I haven't any details.
    But hopefully Torstoi can elaborate.

    * - oops, reading your post again, I imagine you're already au fait with that site etc.
     
  12. ossy

    ossy pfm Member

    :D:D
    I think there must be some sort of equation somewhere based on disposable income / cost of hifi / guilt / musical satisfaction :D

    I play many more records on my simple rega than I used to on the townshend rock. The rega makes ALL of them sound good. The rock made some sound Amazing but others sound a bit megh and I have less guilt - this seems to make the music flow!!
     
    mega lord, lambo and Mr Pig like this.
  13. torstoi

    torstoi pfm Member

    Sure, I just looked up the email conversation from 2017.
    If you PM me your email adress, I can forward you his mail which contains some high res pics from the internal parts and a good image of what kind of quality you expect.

    Lenco bearing with the original spindle, but a massive steel-housing.
    Bearing-bushes from IGUS plastic, with minimal play, (about 0,02mm)
    Trustplate from Torlon with Graphit
    Ball from Silizium-nitrid.
     
  14. eevo1969

    eevo1969 pfm Member

    Technics SL1200 GR, plonk and play, die and leave for your nearest and dearest. Check the platter isn’t wonky and that’s about it, even setting a cartridge up is childs play.
    I’ve always wanted a LP12 but just a basic one from the descriptions I’ve seen over the years, better arm than a Basic Linn and 45rpm and I’d be happy. I think it would be nice to try one just to satisfy my curiosity.
     
    torstoi likes this.
  15. mjkelshaw

    mjkelshaw pfm Member

    Thank you for your kind offer Torstoi, I have therefore forwarded my e-mail contact details:)

    To return more to the discussion, in '89 I purchased a small system that could easily be shipped to Johannesburg, consisting of Planar 3/RB300/Elys/Ion Obelisk 3/Nakamichi CR7/Creek T40/Royd Edens. Later ('91) it was upgraded by the substitution of Roksan Xerxes/Artemiz/Chorus Black/Ion 3X/X-Pac 1/FMT-1, and the addition of Meridian 200/203. The Roksan items were chosen in preference to an LP12 primarily because of the 'switchable' (33/45) power supply and my aversion to Mr. T.
    However, other than satisfying my desire for an 'upgrade', the biggest improvement when listening to music on records, was that being resident in Den Haag at that time, I was able to purchase Japanese pressings at sensible prices.
    I have regretted parting with that system ever since, it would be really interesting to be able to compare it to the occasionally used 'downstairs' record playing system which replaced it, consisting of LP12/Ekos/Akiva/Kairn/3xKlout/Keilidhs. In fact when in use, it's mostly in conjunction with a recently acquired Cambridge CXN v2 for 'internet' radio or TV sound, a Kremlin or a Meridian 506.
    Regards
    Mike Kelshaw
     
    torstoi, RoA and Mr Pig like this.
  16. torstoi

    torstoi pfm Member

    Hi Mike,
    I sent you an email with contact & all detail I know about the bearing.

    You have a long row of very fine selected choices listed there..and to me it looks as if you are roughly 30yrs ahead of me with a good part of your decisions.
    I only learnt in recent years about the qualitys of some of those Meridian CDPs you mention, which advantages certain japanese pressings have to offer & that idlers or a 124 is not just good for the museum.
    So my learning curve was by far not as steep, but I also landed a few lucky shots
    and kind of slowly worked my head out of the sand the hard way.

    As I still have an LP12, a few surely would suggest I'm firmly 6 feet under and the only light I see
    is coming from mushrooms, but I can live with that.. :)

    I heard a few very good DDs meanwhile and idlers too & while the drive and timing of those convinced me a lot,
    in my place the LP12 was ahead bc it had the best arm and cart mounted..up to now.
    Your G99 is particularly interesting as it's offering free arm choice, which is exactly what causes a lot of headache to those with an L75 who don't want to bin the original topplate, but would still wish for a better arm.
    Another well made choice..which arm is on it, may I ask..?

    So despite still running the Sondek & really fine all in all, my compass needle is pointing away from rubber band by tendency the moment..

    Kind regards..
     
    Miss Ariel and Mr Pig like this.
  17. funkit

    funkit Active Member

    the P8 comes with a lid Sir..
     
  18. Woodface

    Woodface pfm Member

    Nope, it comes with a cover not a lid.
     
  19. funkit

    funkit Active Member

    It’s a posh lid then ? Does the same job and all that
     
  20. eevo1969

    eevo1969 pfm Member

    Looks remarkably similar to the Michell unicover?
     

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