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Rega P3/P6 vs Technics SL1200/1210

Discussion in 'audio' started by gerlando, May 11, 2022.

  1. gerlando

    gerlando Prog Rocker

    I am referring to the previous versions.
     
  2. MVV

    MVV pfm Member

    Got a Mk 7 Anni on order so look forward to hearing that with a Denon 103 against the WT GTa with oldish Orforton Cadenza Blue.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2022
    torstoi and Dirkster like this.
  3. chartz

    chartz If it’s broke fix it!

    Exactly what I did. The Rega deck is just a board with a superb arm.
    Here you have a superb turntable with a superb arm.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. sonddek

    sonddek Trade: SUPATRAC

    I tried that with an RB301. Not much in it. An Ekos, on the other hand...
     
    Miss Ariel likes this.
  5. PerF

    PerF Scandinavian Member

    I've read somebody replaced the titanium arm on 1200G with a Jelco.
    Looked the business, probably sounded superb.
     
    Dirkster likes this.
  6. Kostas

    Kostas pfm Member

    Based on what I have read about Rega tables I wouldn't look at their tables except for the P8 & P10 that I also prefer aesthetically but at their cost there are several alternatives. I understand it's a big deal for those in UK to have a UK product and I like they haven't moved production somewhere else but they have been making turntables for 50 years and their entry level decks still don't always get accurate speed.

    Too many modifications for both decks (P3 & 1200MK2), from belts & sub platters to rewiring, external motors, different feet etc. People go crazy and they 'll go as far as they like, I judge the stock product and Technics gets my vote. I like the stock arm, it's a decent arm and I wouldn't change the look of the table. The MK2 deck is an iconic product for me, excluding rewiring of the arm I'd leave it alone. The arm can support many different cartridges and it has the convenience of quick cartridge change with different headshells.

    BTW...I don't believe the stock Rega arm is a superb arm. It's a decent arm that can get better with modifications. I spent ten years with a heavily modified RB-250 arm and I replaced it with an Audiomods Classic, both very nice arms but if the stock RB arm is superb why OL, Michell, Audiomods and others modify the hell out of it?

    If we look outside of their classic models (P3 & 1200MK2) my vote goes again to Technics. Rega claims they can't put on production their best model (Naiad) because of it's high price but a 40 year SP10 MK2 is still a rock solid deck that puts to shame expensive decks and you can get it for about 2000€. Ιf someone wants their best, the SP10R/SL-1000R can be bought for significantly less than the Naiad. Finally, Technics like other Japanese brands were ahead of their time and have also produced great arms that are still in use today 40+ years later. Their EPA B-500 arm base with interchangable armwands is a versatile product. For those who don't know it check this clip for a demonstration.
     
  7. sonddek

    sonddek Trade: SUPATRAC

    Some decks/arms look made for each other...

    [​IMG]

    ...and others don't ;-)

    [​IMG]
     
    Tigerjones, torstoi, Simon s and 5 others like this.
  8. 337alant

    337alant Negatively Biased

    I disagree I have tried both on my SL1200 mk2 and IMHO I think that the stock arm rewired internally with Cardas wire and externally with Klotz MC5000 makes both the RB300 and RB250 arms sound sterile
    Rewiring the stock arm as long as it has good bearings is the best way to go IMO
    Alan
     
    Simon s likes this.
  9. jamesd

    jamesd pfm Member

    I’m not a hardcore “cables don’t matter” person, but the cabling can’t more significant than an arm’s entire engineering/construction, can it? Am I missing something?

    Thanks
     
  10. gerlando

    gerlando Prog Rocker

    I personally find the lift lever in the stock Technics arm not as good.
     
    Amber Audio likes this.
  11. Amber Audio

    Amber Audio This is the Day

    The arm on the G lift/lower mech has a much nicer feel and operation than the one on the cheaper decks. It’s the only minor thing I dislike on my GR.
     
  12. Miss Ariel

    Miss Ariel pfm Member

    That made me smile Sonddek.
    That's a testament of how good the motor unit of a 1210 is and brought a smile,you putting a £3000 + arm on it.
    Ekos must have looked stunning a SME V I have seen on it on forum pics in the past...very nice !
    I think my 1210 brought in 1993 was £300.Nothings changed except cartridges and have a AT 95 ML which works very nicely.
    It still works flawlessly 31 years later and unlike my LP12 hasn't been a money pit.
    Their both lovely decks.LP12 does trump it but so it should at Akurate spec.
     
    Snufkin, Simon s and chris@panteg like this.
  13. Chris

    Chris pfm Member

    My pre motel motor and my Ittok still works flawlessly and
    So do my premotec motor and my Ittok and my hinges and the lid and the plinth etc. and they are a few years older still. I have changed the oil a couple of times though and have just bought a blue belt for 25 quid. LP12s don’t have to be money pits. People are.
     
  14. freefallrob

    freefallrob pfm Member

    I've had several Rega and Techy MK2, standard and modified, I've enjoyed them all.
    I think what learnt from the experience is that going to far with them is not really a good thing, as you end up chasing problems.
    The Regas really benefit from a decent belt and a proper subplatter and the Techys benefit from a nice headshell with good wire (Sumiko) and a cartridge that doesn't ask to much of the standard arm, like a AT120 or VM95ML etc.
    Both like a decent mat, perhaps an Achromat.

    Sit back, buy records, enjoy them.
     
  15. torstoi

    torstoi pfm Member

    No, as a generalisation it surely doesn't work.

    However there's a few classic examples of very decent to excellent arms where obviously the ta inner cable turned out as a big bottleneck.
    For example the Ekos I & the Ittok of the same generation obv had an inner cable installed that seriously held the arm back.
    At some point Linn gave all the arms a significantly better inner cable & it was at that point dealers compared the by then newer Akito to the older Ittok and showed customers the new Akito bettered the Ittok.
    A big part of that was the inner cable in the old Ittok / Ekos I.

    I've had the opportunity to compare my Ekos I in the old state and after a light restoration / fine setting and new inner cable by J7 to my mate's Ekos SE.
    Before I felt the SE was in a different league, after returning from J7 there wasn't much between them.
    The SE was a little bit better still, but far from the huge gap I felt before.

    So while I did not compare directly to a newer Akito, I don't think it would have beaten my refurbed Ekos or a refurbed Ittok..and a big part of that is the inner cable.

    40 years of age seem to be more benign to some materials than others, or the cable wasn't all that great in the first place...idk, but if oxigen gets through the isolation and starts a green colony in there may have audible effect at some point.

    Similar the Rega 250 inner cable wasn't all that great from the start as far as I know,
    and my guess is that a big part of various tuners improvements wasn't fancy holes in 3 different sizes, but just a better inner cable.
    That doesn't make the 250 a super arm & not change it's tonality I'm not getting on with entirely, but it does make a huge jump ahead for sure.

    I have a bit of a problem with generalisations or lists what is more important than what
    in the usual 1) deck 2) ps 3) arm 4) cart manner.

    In some cases it does make sense to ask yourself where the biggest bottleneck is,
    or where is a big problem that can be solved for very little but brings a lot.
    To me with the older Linn and the older Rega it's the inner arm cable.

    And a Zeta of the same age has no issue whatsoever for example,
    it beats the Ekos I with it's (Zeta's) old stock cable.

    That's why imo generalisations don't always work well.
    If the cable is good normal quality and doesn't have an age / oxidation problem then you'll probably not gain much.
     
    jamesd and Miss Ariel like this.
  16. Miss Ariel

    Miss Ariel pfm Member

    Tortstoi,

    What you are saying about arm rewires is so true.

    Years ago a mate who worked in HiFi install and AV install built up an old Rega 3 he resprayed the plinth gold and added a RB250 rewired the inner cable in it and added I think it was a Origin Live techno weight.
    Also added a new arm cable and power supply.
    He brought it over one evening and I was blown away how great it sounded.A good analogy would be a pair of binoculars and your playing around with the focusing and all of a sudden the image its crystal clear.
    For an outlay of £500 it was stunning.A real wow moment.
     
    torstoi likes this.
  17. sonddek

    sonddek Trade: SUPATRAC

    Yes, they are both lovely decks, which is why I own one of each. An LP12 doesn't need to be a money pit. People spend a fortune upgrading them because they can, but you don't have to. More than a decade ago I decided not to buy Keel, Radikal and Ekos SE because I didn't think they represented good value to me, personally. Many others felt differently, obvs. My lack of cash made me scrutinise the Klimax expenditure very carefully and set me on a different journey.

    I did spend 300 quid on an external power supply for my SL-1210 and 500 quid on a Mike New bearing. When I listened to my souped-up £200 Technics next to the Klimax LP12 there was very little difference to my ear except the tunefulness of sustained piano notes during complex dynamic passages.

    Some of the Stack Audio upgrades look like good vfm too.

    There are alternatives to throwing money into your LP12 pit.
     
    Miss Ariel and torstoi like this.
  18. Miss Ariel

    Miss Ariel pfm Member

    Wise words Sonddek,

    I am done with my LP12 now with L4 - Karousel and a Hana ML cartridge.
    It sounds lovely to my ears but going to Radikal at £4500 is just not an option for a small marginal gain.Same with the Keel.
    Just love buying vinyl and CDs and at the end of the day that's what its about.

    If I had loads of money.I probably would.But energy costs etc....

    Your supertrac on the 1210 looked awesome and probably sounded fab :)
     
  19. sonddek

    sonddek Trade: SUPATRAC

    Ah, now that's not throwing money into a pit, whatever deck you use ;-)
     
    torstoi and Miss Ariel like this.
  20. Timcat

    Timcat pfm Member

    I don't have any experience with the less expensive Rega decks, or the older Technics decks, but I do have a Rega P10 and a 1200G. The P10 is very transparent and revealing. What it does is put you in the front row of the audience, voices and acoustic instruments sound live, not filtered through a sound system, and all of the instruments and voices in a complex mix can be picked out individually. The 1200G, on the other hand, puts you further back in the audience, where you would not hear all those front row fine details but where you hear and appreciate the whole performance as one. There's not much in it, but the 1200G has better timing and pitch stability. Anyway, I like both and choose one or the other depending upon the music and my mood.

    I am not sure how much of this is influenced by the cartridge, particularly insofar as the 1200G is concerned. I have had a couple of MC carts in it (AT Art 9 and Kiseki Blue NS) and neither worked well. The MM AT VM540ML that's in it at the moment sounds far better. I have a Rega Apheta 3 in the P10 and the AT Art 9 worked well in it. It may be that the 1200G arm bearings have "run in" since the MC carts were in it. I'll try them again soon. I was also considering using the MCs with a heavier head shell and one of the additional counter weights, as they may work better with arm's effective mass a little higher.
     
    andrewd, Simon s, Miss Ariel and 4 others like this.

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