Rega Naia

I thought it was sort of the other way round ?

They have developed on entrylevel Planars for decades.
Naiad has been their statement, but trickle down is welcome.

 

I admire Rega greatly, especially for their pricing which has always been very fair and good value. For this reason I expect the Naia will be very good.

However, for that kind of money, if I were interested in following a lower mass approach (I am), I would certainly be taking a very close look at Grand Prix, whose decks are also designed by engineers.

I agree that the amount of mass in decks like the OMA seems excessive and I'm not convinced that ever more mass is the key to great performance, particularly when you consider the effect on a platter bearing of a very massive platter. The ideal bearing is quiet, inelastic and stable. High mass doesn't necessarily make those goals easier.

 

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That depends on the bearing doesn't it ?...my turntable has a heavy platter but the bearing sees none of it as I built it as a fully maglev bearing ...my platter just floats.

 

Things get interesting now, Rega have bridged the gap between low to mid-high range and the high cost unicorn (NAIAD) which no-one (apart from DCA's mate) actually seems to own. The proof of the pudding is how well the NAIA performs and sells in that ultra competitive price region.
It could be tough because people spending 10k might be more interested in the boutique/exotic brands - which have also been designed by engineers.

 

Not sure if you are referring to the Naiad, DCA posted this earlier -

 

Beautiful work. You're going to spoil the reputation of DIY with that kind of engineering and finish.
;-)

 

The Naia costa £12K with the Aphelion 2 cartridge which is c.£5k more than a P10 with the same cartridge. The titanium arm is available separately at £4K which is c.£2.5K more than an RB3000 so the arm accounts for about half of the extra cost of the package. The plinth is very different to the Naiad's (which is no doubt a very expensive component). It's P8/10 with carbon fibre facings rather than resin. Sadly the exposed foam remains. I can't imagine flat sheets of carbon are hugely more expensive than the resin. This implies that the major factor in the extra cost of the turntable element is the ceramic bearing and machined sub platter which must be about £2K which makes a Karousel look cheap! Bring on the battle of the bearings! The Naia seems to have all the features of the Naiad turntable bar the full carbon plinth (ignoring the wall bracket and phono stage). There's no information about the PSU.

The obvious comparison is with the LP12 Selekt which some will no doubt prefer given the likely difference in 'flavour'. I look forward to the pseudo scientific/musicality justications. I think the more interesting comparison will be with the P10. Unfortunatey it won't be possible to ditinguish betwen the impact of the arm and the sub platter/bearing although comparisons will no doubt be made between the RB3000 and the titanium version.

Rega don't do 'modular' but I reckon a Naia with an RB3000 arm without cartridge would be about £6.5K and an attractive proposition.

 

£12k for a bit of carbon

 

I've just realised there's a Naia and a Naiad. So this isn't the TT equivalent of a mutant super soldier they've been creating in a lab all these years, it's just another bit of trickle down tech? P10+? In fairness looks great.

 

Not sure there would be much point in a Naia w/RB3000 - by the time you add the Aphelion back in, you are back at £10k. Not much difference in this context (albeit a fair chunk in real life). In for a penny and all that.

I had a long chat with several of the Rega people, including the main man himself at one point, and was told that yes, the really expensive bits are the ceramic bearing and platter. These are apparently the bits which are holding up production. The bearing is similar to, but not exactly the same as the Naiad and the platter apparently has more in common with the Naiad than the P10, despite the similarity in appearance.

As regards the power supply, there is virtually no difference between the P10, Naia and Naiad – except for the lovely case the Naiad's comes in. The Naia's looked identical to the P10's.

 

You can't price out high end hifi piecemeal...it just doesn't add up. They price their products to create a hierarchy of pricing. The is no way making an armtube in titanium as opposed to an aluminium alloy costs over £2,500 more to do. Nor do the other things you have highlighted cost the differences they put on them. Clearaudio make ceramic bearings and their products don't have to cost a fortune .

Every manufacturer with a product line prices their products with handsome discernible steps between them whether the steps in improvement between them warrants it or not.

 

I agree that pricing is essentially a marketing exercise (with regard to costs). No doubt Rega are confident that the Naia justifies its price in terms of performance. Presently we can only judge on material terms and that doesn't appear to add up but it seems to for the rest of the turnatable range. The P10 is £2100 more than a P8 but you get an expensive ceramic platter, £700 more expensive arm, better power supply and bearing. It looks reasonable value in material terms. Same for the P8 compared with the P6 - better arm, top of the range plinth, better platter and dual belts. The P6 looks the best value in the range in material terms. It is £500 more expensive than the P3 with the same arm but you get a Neo (£260), top of the range plinth material, better bearing, machined aluminium sub platter and reference belt.

I'm probably missing something or maybe in terms of expensive hifi normal rules go out of the window even for paragons like Rega.

 

I can’t speak for turntables but know that with speakers there’s a general 1:10 rule, ie the full retail cost is x10 the cost to make in parts. If Rega are working to anything similar their pricing differentials seem generous.

 

Sorry to be dense, but do you mean generous to Rega, or to the buyer?

 

The buyer I reckon

 

I believe the margin is higher in most cases

Even if you calculate parts only, not development cost and other expenses
Sure there will be speakers with unit cost of say 100, cabinet cost of say 25
retail could be 2500 or more.

Of course there's different strategies between companies
Some manufacturers price their kit strategic and within a market niche, no matter how low cost they have.
I believe the reason Rega went with phenolic cabinets is mainly due to cost and maybe future options.

 

Lots of P8/P10s used later this year as the faithful upgrade.
£12k everyone else will buy Sme , Project , Vertere , Technics , Avid , Reed etc

 

Crucially, it sounds good too.

 

It would be interesting to compare the Naia vs a Selekt LP12 at somewhere like Cymbiosis.

 

My P10 will be staying (not least because I can't afford the upgrade, and I've only acquired it recently).

I note that Rega dealers are quite keen to downplay any ideas of diminishing returns - apparently Rega say that the difference between the P10 and the Naia is as great as the difference between the 10 and a P3...