Reevaluating LP12 after Karousel
- Thread starter david ellwood
- Start date
david ellwood
Kirabosi Kognoscente
You do go on a bit though
Luca
pfm Member
A last comment and I have ended.
Arthur Savatore is right. Taken from: http://www.high-endaudio.com/RC-Linn.html
The Linn Sondek Owners ("Linnies")
The other common experience I had back then, and which is still very true today, is that most owners of the Linn turntable will rarely, if ever, seriously compare their Linn to the competition. There is a good reason for this reluctance. It is the same reason why religious fanatics will never seriously study comparative religions, or any "true believer" will always avoid the alternatives...
The stronger, more untenable and increasingly irrational their belief, the less likely that person will ever consider arguments or even information that would contradict that belief*. (Far too) Many Linn owners have huge emotional investments in their turntable. Accordingly, it becomes much too emotionally painful and unsettling for such a person to contemplate (let alone realize) that their now comfortable and deeply satisfying opinion may not be true. To admit that you were wrong, is to accept the fact that your years of "devotion" were ultimately wasted. Maybe worst of all are the possible social consequences...
Most of the Linnies I've met are part of a group of Linnies, some of whom would be considered real friends. Changing your feelings about the Linn would mean inevitably having to leave this group, since the common belief would no longer be shared, just like a person changing their religion or political party. The now former Linnie would become an "apostate" to the group. They accordingly would consider him "disloyal", and probably shun him (like Art Dudley). It isn't much of a surprise that only a few people will choose to go through such a painful experience as this. They would rather live in "bliss", and ignorance of course.
Conclusion
I realize there has been a near cult (and an enormous emotional) attachment to the Linn LP-12 turntable for decades now (it started back in the 1970s). I don't care about that. To me, the Linn Sondek is just another tool for reproducing music, just like every other turntable (amp, speaker etc). It is nothing else. Nor can it be.
Arthur Savatore is right. Taken from: http://www.high-endaudio.com/RC-Linn.html
The Linn Sondek Owners ("Linnies")
The other common experience I had back then, and which is still very true today, is that most owners of the Linn turntable will rarely, if ever, seriously compare their Linn to the competition. There is a good reason for this reluctance. It is the same reason why religious fanatics will never seriously study comparative religions, or any "true believer" will always avoid the alternatives...
The stronger, more untenable and increasingly irrational their belief, the less likely that person will ever consider arguments or even information that would contradict that belief*. (Far too) Many Linn owners have huge emotional investments in their turntable. Accordingly, it becomes much too emotionally painful and unsettling for such a person to contemplate (let alone realize) that their now comfortable and deeply satisfying opinion may not be true. To admit that you were wrong, is to accept the fact that your years of "devotion" were ultimately wasted. Maybe worst of all are the possible social consequences...
Most of the Linnies I've met are part of a group of Linnies, some of whom would be considered real friends. Changing your feelings about the Linn would mean inevitably having to leave this group, since the common belief would no longer be shared, just like a person changing their religion or political party. The now former Linnie would become an "apostate" to the group. They accordingly would consider him "disloyal", and probably shun him (like Art Dudley). It isn't much of a surprise that only a few people will choose to go through such a painful experience as this. They would rather live in "bliss", and ignorance of course.
Conclusion
I realize there has been a near cult (and an enormous emotional) attachment to the Linn LP-12 turntable for decades now (it started back in the 1970s). I don't care about that. To me, the Linn Sondek is just another tool for reproducing music, just like every other turntable (amp, speaker etc). It is nothing else. Nor can it be.
Bloody hell! Any thread regarding Linn always seems to degenerate into vociferous Linn hatred
Yes I know other turntables are available, and not done the comparisons, because I don’t feel the need to. But wasn’t the thread asking about a particular Sondek upgrade- the karousel bearing?
I got the new bearing, and I like it, and yes will probably never get rid of the LP12, as I’ve now spent so much money on it. It’s simply a collection of modular components which I have enjoyed replacing, and then noticing the differences these ‘upgrades’ have made to the sound. That’s the audiophile hobby.
If you’ve got an LP12, and not had the new bearing fitted, then you don’t know what you’re missing. If you don’t have an LP12, then you don’t need to worry about it!
fegs
pfm Member
Yet the OP invited comments from non LP12 owners
"Don't ask the question if you don't want to hear the answer" springs to mind if nothing else
Thorn
pfm Member
Luca appears to be in no way a Linn hater. He owns Linn gear. He is critical of the blind devotion that some LP12 owners show to their turntable. That's not trolling, it's something that needs saying, though not as frequently as Luca has, nor at such length. Those of us who frequented the old Linn forum will have seen that blind devotion so, so often. Anyone who criticised any Linn upgrade or who fitted a component made by someone who was not on the approved suffered the most bitter attacks.
I speak as an happy LP12 owner who has been disappointed by the upgrades I've invested in since 1983, but who'll probably have a Karousel fitted within the month.
I speak as an happy LP12 owner who has been disappointed by the upgrades I've invested in since 1983, but who'll probably have a Karousel fitted within the month.
yuckyamson
pfm Member
No Luca.
No.
Those of us who buy only Linn LP12 attachments are able to see straight out of Plato's cave and into the Garden of Eden.
We dine on the blood of DBL owners hear the notes of musical goodness long past death.
You will never be allowed into the fold.
Cursed will you be for unveiling our true allegiances and trying to unseat our secret society.
Just look over your shoulder when you're backing out of your laneway. That's all I advise.
No.
Those of us who buy only Linn LP12 attachments are able to see straight out of Plato's cave and into the Garden of Eden.
We dine on the blood of DBL owners hear the notes of musical goodness long past death.
You will never be allowed into the fold.
Cursed will you be for unveiling our true allegiances and trying to unseat our secret society.
Just look over your shoulder when you're backing out of your laneway. That's all I advise.
ex brickie
pfm Member
Be prepared to be disappointed then. . I’m an LP12 owner and a bit of a sceptic. I’ve spent a fair bit on upgrades and very few blew me away (maybe I set my expectations a bit too high each time). But this £750 will make you feel that you have a close to £11k worth of deck. The improvement is very significant
I said in an earlier post that my wife was moved to tears hearing her fave music with the Karousel. This isn’t a sexist comment about women not getting it. It is a reflection that without being a Hifi nerd you can really hear the improvement.
sq225917
Bit of this, bit of that
I'm partial to the old fruit of, there's a constant stream of them available on the bay at prices to suit all pockets. I suggest that if one looked at them as a variety of devices, like rega has a range of essentially the same thing, people might not be so confused and polar about them.
It certainly deserves plaudits for its market durability. Many people move on from old favourites and have a Damascene conversion as a result. But just as many move back. I'm ambivalent about it having owned two over the years.
It certainly deserves plaudits for its market durability. Many people move on from old favourites and have a Damascene conversion as a result. But just as many move back. I'm ambivalent about it having owned two over the years.
I haven’t spent over £10k on an LP12
Music moves people to tears, happens to me quite a lot, often on CD.
Just don’t respond to hyperbole, sorry.
steve1ooo
pfm Member
If you think the old Linn forum was bad you should take a look at the lejonklou forum. They're the hi priest's of Linn's tune dem religion.
sktn77a
pfm Member
Arthur Salvatore is a joke. His website is a joke, and is 20 years out of date. Most of his "reviews" are third hand information from someone he knows who knows someone who just bought something and thinks it sounds......... great/awful. And then he assigns a classification to it based on this hearsay.
Miss Ariel
pfm Member
Arthur Savatore is right. Taken from: http://www.high-endaudio.com/RC-Linn.html
The Linn Sondek Owners ("Linnies")
The other common experience I had back then, and which is still very true today, is that most owners of the Linn turntable will rarely, if ever, seriously compare their Linn to the competition. There is a good reason for this reluctance. It is the same reason why religious fanatics will never seriously study comparative religions, or any "true believer" will always avoid the alternatives...
The stronger, more untenable and increasingly irrational their belief, the less likely that person will ever consider arguments or even information that would contradict that belief*. (Far too) Many Linn owners have huge emotional investments in their turntable. Accordingly, it becomes much too emotionally painful and unsettling for such a person to contemplate (let alone realize) that their now comfortable and deeply satisfying opinion may not be true. To admit that you were wrong, is to accept the fact that your years of "devotion" were ultimately wasted. Maybe worst of all are the possible social consequences...
Most of the Linnies I've met are part of a group of Linnies, some of whom would be considered real friends. Changing your feelings about the Linn would mean inevitably having to leave this group, since the common belief would no longer be shared, just like a person changing their religion or political party. The now former Linnie would become an "apostate" to the group. They accordingly would consider him "disloyal", and probably shun him (like Art Dudley). It isn't much of a surprise that only a few people will choose to go through such a painful experience as this. They would rather live in "bliss", and ignorance of course.
Conclusion
I realize there has been a near cult (and an enormous emotional) attachment to the Linn LP-12 turntable for decades now (it started back in the 1970s). I don't care about that. To me, the Linn Sondek is just another tool for reproducing music, just like every other turntable (amp, speaker etc). It is nothing else. Nor can it be.[/QUOTE]
Luca,
Had a look at your link and he makes some fair points - But it was in context of something Linn wise 20 years ago - I laughed my bollox off at the bottom where he say's if you want to call me on the telephone it will cost you $10 to answer a simple enquiry.....but if you want a longer chat with me it will cost you $ 50..........what a tosser.
You could call say Pete Swain at Cymbiosis in Leicester( A highly regarded LP12 maestro ) and he will happily give you advice ( or any dealer)
Anyway I thought this post was about the Karousel
I just enjoy what my LP12 does...consistently puts a big smile on my face.
Couldn't care less the politics of "Linnies"......Linn aren't saying you have to buy a Karousel it's more we have made a better bearing.Our first in 20 years and from what people have posted not just here but other forums it's a massive upgrade.
The Linn Sondek Owners ("Linnies")
The other common experience I had back then, and which is still very true today, is that most owners of the Linn turntable will rarely, if ever, seriously compare their Linn to the competition. There is a good reason for this reluctance. It is the same reason why religious fanatics will never seriously study comparative religions, or any "true believer" will always avoid the alternatives...
The stronger, more untenable and increasingly irrational their belief, the less likely that person will ever consider arguments or even information that would contradict that belief*. (Far too) Many Linn owners have huge emotional investments in their turntable. Accordingly, it becomes much too emotionally painful and unsettling for such a person to contemplate (let alone realize) that their now comfortable and deeply satisfying opinion may not be true. To admit that you were wrong, is to accept the fact that your years of "devotion" were ultimately wasted. Maybe worst of all are the possible social consequences...
Most of the Linnies I've met are part of a group of Linnies, some of whom would be considered real friends. Changing your feelings about the Linn would mean inevitably having to leave this group, since the common belief would no longer be shared, just like a person changing their religion or political party. The now former Linnie would become an "apostate" to the group. They accordingly would consider him "disloyal", and probably shun him (like Art Dudley). It isn't much of a surprise that only a few people will choose to go through such a painful experience as this. They would rather live in "bliss", and ignorance of course.
Conclusion
I realize there has been a near cult (and an enormous emotional) attachment to the Linn LP-12 turntable for decades now (it started back in the 1970s). I don't care about that. To me, the Linn Sondek is just another tool for reproducing music, just like every other turntable (amp, speaker etc). It is nothing else. Nor can it be.[/QUOTE]
Luca,
Had a look at your link and he makes some fair points - But it was in context of something Linn wise 20 years ago - I laughed my bollox off at the bottom where he say's if you want to call me on the telephone it will cost you $10 to answer a simple enquiry.....but if you want a longer chat with me it will cost you $ 50..........what a tosser.
You could call say Pete Swain at Cymbiosis in Leicester( A highly regarded LP12 maestro ) and he will happily give you advice ( or any dealer)
Anyway I thought this post was about the Karousel
I just enjoy what my LP12 does...consistently puts a big smile on my face.
Couldn't care less the politics of "Linnies"......Linn aren't saying you have to buy a Karousel it's more we have made a better bearing.Our first in 20 years and from what people have posted not just here but other forums it's a massive upgrade.
mountain biker
The hills are alive
I don't know how you can say all that's been said is exaggerated when you clearly haven't heard it. I'm certainly not prone to BS. I have met too many of them in my life and they are so transparent I really don't ever wish to join them.
I said in my post I don't generally post on upgrades but I feel this is exceptional and really is worth positive discussion.
You, at least, owning a LP12 should at least try to hear it and not post your negative thoughts, you never know you may end up agreeing its a revelation, or should that be a revolution.
sq225917
Bit of this, bit of that
Its a bearing, the old one was -78db A weighted. No one in the TT market has ever reached -85db A weighted with a full contact bearing. So being generous its probably 3-4 db better than the old one.
Thats a nice improvement, id take it, but its not going to redefine one's world.
Thats a nice improvement, id take it, but its not going to redefine one's world.