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Reevaluating LP12 after Karousel

david ellwood said:
Its 27 years since the cirkus bearing update, so you might have quite a wait on your hands
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Are you sure? In 27 years they have gotten a lot quicker to come up with modifications to sell.

It is business, as soon as the sales trend of new updates drops, they have to produce new ones to support the budget.
 
Luca said:
Are you sure? In 27 years they have gotten a lot quicker to come up with modifications to sell.

It is business, as soon as the sales trend of new updates drops, they have to produce new ones to support the budget.
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Absolutely, you are right. New month, new LP12 upgrade from Linn. What are they like, those little Scottish tinkers?
 
I have no criticism of the Linn business model. What I don't like is their insistence that the Karousel must be installed by a dealer (at least in New Zealand). The last time a dealer touched my deck, he stripped the heads of a couple of screws. No dealer is going to come anywhere near my Linn whilst I'm still kicking.
 
I think the potential issue is that over tightening carries the possibility of deforming the top bearing rendering the Karousel bin fodder.

I think you’d be fine fitting it yourself if you forego the guarantee.

Not saying that it’s beyond you to get it right, just that Linn justifiably want to minimise returns.
 
david ellwood said:
I think the potential issue is that over tightening carries the possibility of deforming the top bearing rendering the Karousel bin fodder.

I think you’d be fine fitting it yourself if you forego the guarantee.

Not saying that it’s beyond you to get it right, just that Linn justifiably want to minimise returns.
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Surely it's not hard to get Linn-tight. Don't you just tighten until you feel plastic deformation, then back off 1/8th turn? ;)

No, I wasn't joking. The importer point-blank refuses to sell me the Karousel kit, even if I absolve him of all installation stuff-ups. Oh well, his loss. Not mine.

I might try and contact a local dealer who is not so exacting.
 
21st century Linn use torque wrenches!! Amazing I know.

For the 20mm securing nut on the Karousel the torque is 4 Nm for alloy subs and 5 for steel. Simple.
 
James said:
I have no criticism of the Linn business model. What I don't like is their insistence that the Karousel must be installed by a dealer (at least in New Zealand). The last time a dealer touched my deck, he stripped the heads of a couple of screws. No dealer is going to come anywhere near my Linn whilst I'm still kicking.
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Linn has everything to gain by making it complicated. The consumer must not touch his own turntable (he is not competent) but every time turn to a specialist. Linn doesn't explain how to do it yourself. His customers aren't skilled enough.
This system is perfect for proposing new updates over time. The non self-sufficient customer (who turns to the authorized dealer every time) is a perfect target to sell other very expensive upgrades sometime during the time. It will also be the ability of the seller to convince the customer of the great improvement achievable by the insanely priced turntable parts replacement.
I am a big fan of analog reproduction but fortunately I am still lucid enough to understand when a price has nothing to do with the value of the object. The price of the Linn upgrades make no sense to me and I don't invest in overpriced products. For this reason I don't care if they improve or no the sound.
 
James said:
I have no criticism of the Linn business model. What I don't like is their insistence that the Karousel must be installed by a dealer (at least in New Zealand). The last time a dealer touched my deck, he stripped the heads of a couple of screws. No dealer is going to come anywhere near my Linn whilst I'm still kicking.
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The same happened to me. An authorized Linn dealer devastated my rarest and most precious tonearm. Fortunately I learned to repair the tonearms.
 
An attraction of the LP12 is that upgrades are retrofittable, so you don't have to trade in your deck every few years for the latest model. Or you can if you want.
 
Durmbo said:
WTF, I'd have demanded a replacement.
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Didn't exist a replacement.
That Linn athorized dealer went out of business after a short time and disappeared making it untraceable without returning to customers their audio equipments that had in stock for modifications or upgrades. I was lucky to get back my record player a little before he disappeared. This a true story happened several years ago.
 
Luca said:
Linn has everything to gain by making it complicated. The consumer must not touch his own turntable (he is not competent) but every time turn to a specialist. Linn doesn't explain how to do it yourself. His customers aren't skilled enough.
This system is perfect for proposing new updates over time. The non self-sufficient customer (who turns to the authorized dealer every time) is a perfect target to sell other very expensive upgrades sometime during the time. It will also be the ability of the seller to convince the customer of the great improvement achievable by the insanely priced turntable parts replacement.
I am a big fan of analog reproduction but fortunately I am still lucid enough to understand when a price has nothing to do with the value of the object. The price of the Linn upgrades make no sense to me and I don't invest in overpriced products. For this reason I don't care if they improve or no the sound.
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I'm a little less cynical. I'll pay what I consider to be a reasonable price for the item. If I think it is too expensive, I'll pass. The pricing of the Karousel is not ridiculous. When the Cirkus first came out a quarter century ago, it cost a neat NZD1,000 - which I was prepared to pay (but didn't for other reasons). Inflation has doubled the price of most things since then, so the asking price of NZD1,750 for the Karousel doesn't seem too bad, if the sound improvements reported by others are anything to go by.
 
That people are somehow unable to make their own informed judgements as to how to spend their own hard earned cash is laughable.

Just because you don’t consider a purchase viable doesn’t make that decision a universal truth.

Linn are selling enough Karousel to ensure many dealers can’t fit them fast enough to keep up with demand.
 
Luca said:
Linn has everything to gain by making it complicated. The consumer must not touch his own turntable (he is not competent) but every time turn to a specialist. Linn doesn't explain how to do it yourself. His customers aren't skilled enough.
This system is perfect for proposing new updates over time. The non self-sufficient customer (who turns to the authorized dealer every time) is a perfect target to sell other very expensive upgrades sometime during the time. It will also be the ability of the seller to convince the customer of the great improvement achievable by the insanely priced turntable parts replacement.
I am a big fan of analog reproduction but fortunately I am still lucid enough to understand when a price has nothing to do with the value of the object. The price of the Linn upgrades make no sense to me and I don't invest in overpriced products. For this reason I don't care if they improve or no the sound.
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No one, not even Linn, is forcing you to buy their products. Just ignore them.
 
Luca said:
It is business, as soon as the sales trend of new updates drops, they have to produce new ones to support the budget.
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That's what all companies must do though, in order to survive. It is taught in higher education establishments, that a replacement product must be developed before sales of the previous product have peaked, else there is no budget available. Linn, have managed to keep the LP12 in production for over 40 years by incrementally improving it; I can't think of many other products that can be serviced and updated for this long.

I do agree though, that some Linn dealers are quite bad.
 
flatpopely said:
No one, not even Linn, is forcing you to buy their products. Just ignore them.
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They can't force you, they just try to convince you.I proudly ignore them, have gladly done without them for many years. Fortunately, there are no Linn dealers in my region and I don't need them for any reason.
 
wylton said:
That's what all companies must do though, in order to survive. It is taught in higher education establishments, that a replacement product must be developed before sales of the previous product have peaked, else there is no budget available. Linn, have managed to keep the LP12 in production for over 40 years by incrementally improving it; I can't think of many other products that can be serviced and updated for this long.

I do agree though, that some Linn dealers are quite bad.
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Yes there is nothing illegal, but the consumer should always keep this in mind.
 
James said:
I'm a little less cynical. I'll pay what I consider to be a reasonable price for the item. If I think it is too expensive, I'll pass. The pricing of the Karousel is not ridiculous. When the Cirkus first came out a quarter century ago, it cost a neat NZD1,000 - which I was prepared to pay (but didn't for other reasons). Inflation has doubled the price of most things since then, so the asking price of NZD1,750 for the Karousel doesn't seem too bad, if the sound improvements reported by others are anything to go by.
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The Cirkus kit was formed of more parts as a new sub-chassis a two belts. Take a look at the update list price for a sub and two belts ... This is what you have to add to the Karousel price to make a comparison.
 
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