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Reevaluating LP12 after Karousel

Your dealer should have a deck with and without so you can hear the difference for yourself.

I’m enamoured, but then I’m a died in the wool linnie.
 
Mullardman said:
Just to be clear. I don't think that folks (like me) who have owned an LP12 and moved on, can all be fairly classified as 'Linn Haters'.

However, in relation to endless Linn upgrades..I'm reminded of the comment made in Hi Fi World on the 10th Anniversary of the introduction of CD...

"For something which was launched as 'perfect'.. CD hasn't half improved in ten years"
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Just can't resist, can you? Why post in a thread about a piece of equipment you haven't got and have no intention of getting?

Moderator heal thyself.
 
Because I am entitled to a general opinion on the history of the LP12.. even if I'd never owned one.

As it is I owned an LP12 for well over 20 years.

There are many more belligerent posts in this thread. I make a simple observation about the fact that the LP12 is undeniably no longer recognisably what it started out as.. like Trigger's broom (Not our Trigger ).. and you go all 'Holier Than Thou'?

And who's a Moderator?

Maybe take a deep breath?
 
2ManyBoxes said:
Just can't resist, can you? Why post in a thread about a piece of equipment you haven't got and have no intention of getting?

Moderator heal thyself.
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The OP in his original post does asks for the opinions of non LP12 owners

“Karousel really is a game changer and I’m wondering if any non LP12 owners have taken time to reevaluate their opinions?”

This I still find puzzling
 
James said:
How does Karousel on an original pressed steel and bonded sub-chassis sound compared to pre-Cirkus on a Keel or GS Klone?
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I don’t know the answer to this but acknowledging @Ron Ellis point about how you can easily forget how it used to be, I would say that the Karousel improvement was at least as noticeable as going from Lingo 2 to 4 and more noticeable than the Greenstreet. In terms of value for money I would get the bearing done before anything else if I was starting the upgrade path again. Even @david ellwood waxing lyrical suggests to me (but I cant speak for him) that the Karousel improvement is more impressive than the Keel - and certainly better £ for £. I can’t justify the price of a Keel hence the GS is a perfectly decent alternative for me.

Get the Karousel - you might find you are perfectly satisfied and don’t hanker after anything else . It really is noticeable. Twice I’ve had listening sessions recently playing some of my wife’s favourite tracks and both times she was moved to tears. It really does bring out emotion like you’ve not heard before. And before anyone suggests it, they weren’t tears having seen the price tag
 
Karousel is the biggest single upgrade I’ve experienced and I have most of them.

Although it does build on the existing strengths of the LP12 it almost feels like a departure.

The Karousel is not merely more of the same it’s a fundamental revision.

And that’s the reason why I’m interested in people who might previously have had issue with the sound of the deck.

Im really not interested in further comment from those with a bone to pick.
 
ex brickie said:
I don’t know the answer to this but acknowledging @Ron Ellis point about how you can easily forget how it used to be, I would say that the Karousel improvement was at least as noticeable as going from Lingo 2 to 4 and more noticeable than the Greenstreet. In terms of value for money I would get the bearing done before anything else if I was starting the upgrade path again. Even @david ellwood waxing lyrical suggests to me (but I cant speak for him) that the Karousel improvement is more impressive than the Keel - and certainly better £ for £. I can’t justify the price of a Keel hence the GS is a perfectly decent alternative for me.

Get the Karousel - you might find you are perfectly satisfied and don’t hanker after anything else . It really is noticeable. Twice I’ve had listening sessions recently playing some of my wife’s favourite tracks and both times she was moved to tears. It really does bring out emotion like you’ve not heard before. And before anyone suggests it, they weren’t tears having seen the price tag
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My GS is specific to the pre-Cirkus bearing. Will there be any problems installing the Karousel? I guess I could check in with Greenstreet. I recall reading something about shims earlier.

I also have the Kahn top plate and brace. I suppose the Karousel will be not much bigger in diameter than the Cirkus so it comfortably clears the hole in the brace.
 
Karousel is compatible with Khan and with a shim can be made to fit GS Klone.

I'm not sure how much of a performance hit you take for having it shimmed or whether you need to be careful with the torque for having a thinner mounting plate.
 
@James Just check with David Genther at Greenstreet. He is very helpful and responds quickly. I had the first GS shim and the Karousel sounds amazing. It also works with the Khan
 
I have two neighbours.... both within 100 metres of my house. who have LP12s. I know that one is considering the Karousel. I'm not sure about the other. With the first chap, I doubt anything on his LP12 other than the lid, is original.. which validates my 'Trigger's Broom' jest above. Sadly, the Covid risks, even though extremely minimal in this case,.. and the regulations.. prevent me from hearing his LP12 before and after the Karousel. He has also replaced his preamp since I last heard his system.
So all in all, I doubt that my opinion would carry much weight.. if it ever did.. :)
 
It depends on the mounting flange being the correct thickness (2mm) The Karousel uses a fine threaded nut to clamp the bearing to the chassis. Id give Vivid a call as to compatibility.
 
My LP12 now resides in the office system upstairs. I deliberately got it back to Linn standard, having retired it in favour of a 401 in the main system and it’s now at LP12/Kore/Lingo 1/Solid Base. It’s sounding good now, with an Audiomods/Metal bodied 103. I guess this would be a good contender for the karousel upgrade, but £750 remains a lot of cash for an upgrade, I wouldn’t rule it out though based on what I have read above.
 
David, you are brave inviting discussion on this!

A while back I remember confessing, (on the then Linn forum) to fitting a Stiletto aluminium plinth to my LP12 and saying it sounds fab. It was like starting some kind of religious war. The ‘believers’ were spitting fire that it’s no longer a Sondek, and the ‘unbelievers’ said it was an unforgivable waste of dosh on a crap record player and both sets cried, “stone ‘im, stone ‘im”. Some folks were genuinely proper wound up.

Most folks are indifferent of course, which is a position I respect entirely.

I got my second hand Sondek in 1991 and have very gradually done the classic upgrades one by one. Each time I’ve suffered terrible buyer’s remorse until getting it home and playing it. They’ve all been good but I seem to recall Keel being a big one. Radikal was another big one. The only non-Linn fit was the Stiletto (hence the stoning for heresy). I think maybe that one was the biggest improvement - timing, transients, detail, etc. But the Karousel is up there for me. It’s a game changer as you say.

I don’t know if I’ve actually got a Linn LP12 or not any more and I don’t much care. It’s only a record player. But it does sound good. Neither do I want to know how much I’ve spent on the blxxdy thing. At least it’s been spread over 30 years or so.

David, I’m wearing a tin hat as I type. Are you?
 
mrclick said:
David, you are brave inviting discussion on this!

A while back I remember confessing, (on the then Linn forum) to fitting a Stiletto aluminium plinth to my LP12 and saying it sounds fab. It was like starting some kind of religious war. The ‘believers’ were spitting fire that it’s no longer a Sondek, and the ‘unbelievers’ said it was an unforgivable waste of dosh on a crap record player and both sets cried, “stone ‘im, stone ‘im”. Some folks were genuinely proper wound up.

Most folks are indifferent of course, which is a position I respect entirely.

I got my second hand Sondek in 1991 and have very gradually done the classic upgrades one by one. Each time I’ve suffered terrible buyer’s remorse until getting it home and playing it. They’ve all been good but I seem to recall Keel being a big one. Radikal was another big one. The only non-Linn fit was the Stiletto (hence the stoning for heresy). I think maybe that one was the biggest improvement - timing, transients, detail, etc. But the Karousel is up there for me. It’s a game changer as you say.

I don’t know if I’ve actually got a Linn LP12 or not any more and I don’t much care. It’s only a record player. But it does sound good. Neither do I want to know how much I’ve spent on the blxxdy thing. At least it’s been spread over 30 years or so.

David, I’m wearing a tin hat as I type. Are you?
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Of course you still have a Sondek! You’ve just replaced components of the original which sound better to your ears. But it’s still the same idea; a plinth, top plate off of which a suspended sub chassis e.t.c e.t.c. Any idea that everything in it has to be made by Linn is obtuse, as Linn outsource manufacturing themselves of most parts.
 
mrclick said:
David, you are brave inviting discussion on this!

A while back I remember confessing, (on the then Linn forum) to fitting a Stiletto aluminium plinth to my LP12 and saying it sounds fab. It was like starting some kind of religious war. The ‘believers’ were spitting fire that it’s no longer a Sondek, and the ‘unbelievers’ said it was an unforgivable waste of dosh on a crap record player and both sets cried, “stone ‘im, stone ‘im”. Some folks were genuinely proper wound up.

Most folks are indifferent of course, which is a position I respect entirely.

I got my second hand Sondek in 1991 and have very gradually done the classic upgrades one by one. Each time I’ve suffered terrible buyer’s remorse until getting it home and playing it. They’ve all been good but I seem to recall Keel being a big one. Radikal was another big one. The only non-Linn fit was the Stiletto (hence the stoning for heresy). I think maybe that one was the biggest improvement - timing, transients, detail, etc. But the Karousel is up there for me. It’s a game changer as you say.

I don’t know if I’ve actually got a Linn LP12 or not any more and I don’t much care. It’s only a record player. But it does sound good. Neither do I want to know how much I’ve spent on the blxxdy thing. At least it’s been spread over 30 years or so.

David, I’m wearing a tin hat as I type. Are you?
Click to expand...


As a fellow Stilletto owner I totally agree its absolutely the Mutts Knuts!

Before Karousel Id have said Stilletto was the biggest improvement i'd experienced on the LP12.

Despite it being a little extravagant, the two together are quite simply astonishing in what they allow to be extracted from the groove.
 
@mrclick and @david ellwood I've had a number of upgrades but couldn't afford/ justify the outlay of a Keel or Stiletto. Parting with cash for a Lingo 4 was big enough (from a Lingo 2 so the net cost was a few hundred pounds)!

I still believe that the Karousel has the biggest single SQ improvement - so it really is VFM. I reckon it is bigger than the Lingo upgrade

As an aside, I had a Keel demo in a reputable Linn dealer many years back but I also managed to get a demo at the same time of my (then) Lingo 1 vs a Lingo 2. The Lingo 2 was as much of an improvement - to my ears - as the Keel. And much less net cost . Hence I bought the Lingo 2

I was also very lucky to get the Greenstreet when there were USD$2 to £1. Bargain!
 
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