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Rare and splendid Haydn from Sir Hamilton Harty.

George J

George J

Herefordshire member
Symphony Number 95 in C minor, LSO, Harty on Decca:


Who would have thought that Harty would be so adept in this music considering that he was famous for his performances of romantic music, especially Berlioz, and was the first to make a recording of Walton's First Symphony?

I hope people enjoy this rarely played Haydn Symphony in the hands of a master who knows how Haydn goes, and whose orchestra seems to be completely convinced by their former principal conductor.

Best wishes from George
 
Harty made a recording of The Clock too.

For years and years I’ve felt a bit negative about late Haydn. The London Symphonies don’t seem as innovative and experimental as some of the earlier orchestral music. Op 76 doesn’t seem as innovative and experimental as op 20. But recently I listened to the London Haydn Quartet playing op 76/2 and it was a revelation - Mozartian, in a way, except Mozart went in the direction of the Prussian quartets. The experience made me think that the time is right for me to reassess later Haydn.
 
Haydn Clock Symphony. Halle Orchestra, Sir Hamilton Harty - recording from 1927:


These recordings show performances that really catch Haydn's robust, direct and phenomenally crafted music that is really the precursor of Beethoven rather than sub-par Mozart, which sadly is not all that unusual [if erroneous] a view these days.

Best wishes from George
 
George J said:
Haydn Clock Symphony. Halle Orchestra, Sir Hamilton Harty - recording from 1927:


These recordings show performances that really catch Haydn's robust, direct and phenomenally crafted music that is really the precursor of Beethoven rather than sub-par Mozart, which sadly is not all that unusual [if erroneous] a view these days.

Best wishes from George
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You're probably right to say it's well crafted music -- apart from maybe the third movement, I've never enjoyed that one.
 
mandryka said:
You're probably right to say it's well crafted music -- apart from maybe the third movement, I've never enjoyed that one.
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That is a singularly strange comment. Not you have never enjoyed it, but your value judgement on the craftsmanship Haydn brings to the Minuet and Trio of the Clock Symphony. Perhaps you try Klemperer's unsurpassed [for a modern stereo recording] reading, where Haydn's actually rather expansive Scherzo is exposed without cutting the repeats. Strangely Klemperer is almost exactly twice as long, because everything is played twice! Same tempo almost exactly. Harty is slightly more flexible, but that is fine. But this is actually the archetype of the Beethovenian Scherzo that would persist for the best part of a century. It is possibly the greatest Minuet and Trio/Scherzo before Beethoven!

Just two pence' worth from George
 
I remember thinking that Klemperer's 100 and 102 were good. Lots of great minuets and trios in Mozart of course.

Listened to London Haydn op 76/1 this morning -- I really do find their performances are helping me appreciate the music more -- perhaps you should try it.

I once -- years and years ago now -- listened to lots of clock symphonies because I was fascinated by the movement with the ticking clock. I might not feel the same way now but I remember being impressed by Van Beinum.


Beinum (Live): Haydn's Symphony No. 101 "The Clock" - YouTube
 
Van Beinum knew his Haydn. Not all conductors since quite get it. Haydn is not just peasant Mozart.

Mozart admired Haydn, and Haydn admired Mozart, but was much older and lived far longer. I do think that there are traces of influence from one to the other, but Haydn was certainly the grounded character, and wrote music from that strength - love it or not. Haydn was certainly the greatest contra-puntalist since Bach. This is exactly why he could develop in a sonata form movement more concisely than anyone before or since. his mastery of the craft of music is not readily apparent without a score, as Haydn noted, "I compose for the connoisseur and the amateur listener alike." To write what seems joyful and apparently simple music that yet is capable of the most serious analysis speaks of a lifelong craft that hides itself.

Of course mature Haydn is no longer probing the formal limits [which Haydn effectively set] in his latter days. In these works we see and hear not a revolution, but a sublimation of the forms he had pioneered in a very long career. He made a point of reducing the length of his music by compression of the development sections with counterpoint. Yet the non-enquiring listener gets the impression of joyful shortness, which is actually no bad thing. Bruckner would have done well to study Haydn more, methinks!

Best wishes from George
 
I just came back to mention something George. One of the things I'm interested in is Mozart's influence on Haydn. I'm not sure there was anything very significant. Anyway I thought I'd mention it in case you had any ideas.
 
Certainly Haydn dedicated six quartets to Mozart, and one may detect some Mozartian characteristics in them. Otherwise, not so much. Perhaps in old age Haydn seems more conservative than Mozart at the end of his life.

Mozart wrote operas and concertos that Haydn never approached in their greatness or significance to subsequent generations. But Haydn wrote string quartets and symphonies that have remained bench marks of their time, and which I dare to say Mozart never really equalled, not so much in quality of invention, but joy in the listener. Mozart wrote several symphonic masterpieces and Haydn wrote an or order of magnitude more.

It is idle to suppose Haydn will ever achieve the fame of Mozart in the modern era, but those who dig a bit are in for a treat, though there is almost too much great Haydn for individual pieces to get the attention they deserve, and certainly the acerbic sounds of HIPP music making do Haydn precisely no favours as it goes.

Nice exchanging words on what is all too a recherché subject.

Thanks and best wishes from George
 
mandryka said:
Which quartets did Haydn dedicate to Mozart?
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Ooops. It was Mozart who dedicated six quartets to Haydn!

Mozart's K. 387, 421, 428, 458, 464, and 465.

And the younger man co-opted some Haydn traits ...

Oh the joys of reading and mis-remembering! Personally I have never found anything much like Mozart in Haydn or like Haydn in Mozart!

A little like there is no Beethoven in Schubert or Schubert in Beethoven, but there certainly is some rather Haydnesque Beethoven!

Best wishes from George
 
I can’t resist sharing a bit of Haydn which I have become addicted to, he must have had some outstanding horn players in his orchestra!


Another is the adagio cantabile of Symphony 68 - but I can’t find a decent YouTube performance, Vilmos Tatrai doesn’t take the repeats, and I think that’s a mistake. It is an early example of himmlische laenge.
 
George J said:
Ooops. It was Mozart who dedicated six quartets to Haydn!

Mozart's K. 387, 421, 428, 458, 464, and 465.

And the younger man co-opted some Haydn traits ...

Oh the joys of reading and mis-remembering
Click to expand...
Mozart's 'Haydn' quartets contain some of the best music ever written in my opinion. (Well, we have to be careful about saying 'best' don't we!) The Dissonance quartet in particular has always been close to my heart.

Thanks for the Harty links, I'll have a proper listen on my way to work tomorrow!

Alex
 
To revive the thread, here is the latest Schubert upload from Vintage Sounds, of most strikingly wonderful performance of Schubert's Great C Major Symphony.


The recording may be an old style cramped 78 studio production, but the performance is just so. Portamento and all!

I hope this recording brings pleasure to those [probaly most of us really] who would not imagine such a grand and wise performance would be possible in Manchester almost a century ago!

Best wishes from George
 
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