Rail companies but no railway system

[DuncanF]

Sorry, but if I was planing this journey and I had a two minute window to change trains, then I'd look for a later/better connection. Inbound trains can be delayed/late for any number of reasons. Stating that this (may?) would have been a held connection under British Rail is nonsensical. BR hasn't existed for 20 years.

 

[wacko]

TBF you mainly get the train into London for a night out or round the country on holiday.

Commuting on a daily basis is a whole different problem, I commuted into London from Southampton and paid £6,500 for a season ticket and £1,500 for parking.

That was £8,000 a year for a train that 50% of the year had no seats free by the time the train reached southampton and 90% of the time didn't have standing room by the time it reached Woking.

Remarkable 'out of the box thinking' by HMG will solve this problem by getting rid of tens of thousands of jobs in London over the next few years.

 

[Still]

Stating that this (may?) would have been a held connection under British Rail is nonsensical.

I disagree as this was a useful part of the BR service, so illustrates some of what we've lost.

I started commuting from Kent to London in 1989 (pre-privatisation) until the mid 1990s.
I occasionally but regularly used the Strood - Maidstone W - Tonbridge line to connect with London bound trains, and back home again (mainly used the Ashford - Maidstone E - Victoria line).
These connections were timed to connect (described as guaranteed in the timetable), and ime the trains were held when there were delays.
Within a couple of years the connections were no longer guaranteed, and many of the previous connections slowly drifted until they no longer worked.

Indeed the reason I stopped commuting, and moved to London, was because rail services had degraded to the point where it was no longer practical.
And in those circa three years my railway commute costs doubled.

 

[SteveG]

If my train was scheduled to arrive at 17:42 I'd not have been expecting to make a train leaving the same station at 17:44, even if both were on time. I wouldn't have expected that when I lived in Germany either.

 

[merlin]

Isn't it all the trade unions' fault and doesn't privatisation keep consumer costs down?

 

[SteveG]

Indeed the reason I stopped commuting, and moved to London, was because rail services had degraded to the point where it was no longer practical.

Around London it seems to depend on which train company you have to use - some of them seem pretty decent, but colleagues who travel in from the South of London seem to get a very poor service.

My general experience with trains now (and I use them quite a bit) is that it's a hell of a lot better now than it was back in the old British Rail days (I used to travel on trains a lot in my military days and it was often a nightmare - I was even on a train down to Plymouth that got stuck due to some icing issues and arrived more than 24 hours late). I mainly use the tube and London Overground plus the main lines to places like Manchester, Leeds and Edinburgh although I did commute into central London using South Eastern for a while.

 

[Pete MB&D]

Big fire at Nottingham station this morning, disgruntled passengers?

Trams past the station stopped because of the fire and a police indecent on Waverley street trams stopped.

Luckily I don't live in either direction.

Pete

 

[gintonic]

police indecent

Were they? In what way? Flashing blue lights ?

 

[Pete MB&D]

Dam smell chequer/ dislexic brain

 

[misterdog]

Yesterday my wife had cause to travel by rail from Derby to Grantham. The Derby train reached Nottingham at 17.42 The Skegness train Left Nottingham at 17.44 In the "bad old days" of British Rail this was an held connection and the Derby train arrived across the platform from the Skegness train. In the bright new world of privitisation the Derby train arrived at Platform 6 and the Skegness one departed from Platform 1. The 3 passengers who made herculian efforts to make this connection were greeted by the sight of the train pulling away 10 yards from them. Is it any suprise over 70% of the population want the railways nationalised.

So 3 passengers wish to travel from A to B, and the whole rail network should be reconfigured to provide this ?

over 70% of the population want the railways nationalised

No one has asked me, so which 'population' and what wording was used ?

" would you like to see seating guaranteed and prices reduced for rail fares under a re-nationalised rail service ?"

(note there is no mention of who 'pays' for this given that a lunch is never free)

I would vote yes.

 

[misterdog]

The Derby train reached Nottingham at 17.42 The Skegness train Left Nottingham at 17.44 In the "bad old days" of British Rail this was an held connection and the Derby train arrived across the platform from the Skegness train.

How much compensation would you be prepared to pay the 00's on the Skegness train for their delay ?

 

[zippy]

No surprise at all. It's a shambles. An expensive one at that.

and nationalising would make it even worse. I remember nationalised railways very well, and they were dire..

 

[Nic Robinson]

and nationalising would make it even worse. I remember nationalised railways very well, and they were dire..

I remember them well too. I don't think they were worse than now.

 

[Still]

and nationalising would make it even worse. I remember nationalised railways very well, and they were dire..

Renationalising doesn't mean travelling back in time!
When the East Coast Mainline was recently taken back in to public ownership, after a disastrous period in the private sector, it thrived.

 

[Don Atkinson]

The current model is a complete dogs breakfast, but to see it as simply 'nationalised vs privatised' is nonsense, it is a mixed system with private operators operating franchises the government tenders out; we have simply done it very badly. There are examples of such systems working very well else where in the world, just as there are of truely nationalised and truely privatised systems working very well in others. Not having the rose-tinted view of BR that some seem to have, I have reached the conclusion that the British as a nation are just sh!t at running railways. Ergo, we should put the whole damn network out to tender to any private/public company or foreign government entity, provided they can demonstrate they already run a railway sucessfully elsewhere within certain service and efficiency parameters!

In a similar vain, we should also put the Germans in charge of our motorways...

Many, if not, most of the TOCs already ARE a foreign government entity, so it might not be JUST the British as a nation that can't run railways

 

[Cav]

Carillion, lean mean private sector company about to destroy the UK economy. Will we ever learn?

 

[Mullardman]

Many, if not, most of the TOCs already ARE a foreign government entity, so it might not be JUST the British as a nation that can't run railways

I wish you would all get this. It isn't about running railways. It is about making money. And if the Private sector can't make money via their 'legendary (and mythical) efficiency and good business sense'.. they make damned sure they make it via subsidy and indefensible fares.

FFS, this is the Tory Agenda since 1979 in a nutshell and the population of this country still don't get it.

 

[misterdog]

Possibly Merlin could reflect on how well the nationalised state railway in Thailand could be a role model for our country ?

Though from Wiki it seems less of an ideal to aim for.

The SRT has long been popularly perceived by the public as inefficient and resistant to change. Trains are usually late, and most of its equipment is old and poorly maintained. The worst financially performing state enterprise, the SRT consistently operates at a loss despite being endowed with large amounts of property and receiving large government budgets. It reported a preliminary loss of 7.58 billion baht in 2010.[5] Recurring government attempts at restructuring and/or privatization throughout the 2000s have always been strongly opposed by the union and have not made any progress.[6][7]

SRT's failings are reflected in passenger numbers, which have dropped from 88 million in 1994 to 44 million in 2014.[1]

Remind anyone of the 1970's ?

 

[misterdog]

Maybe we should be looking at the Venezuelan model after all JC is a big fan of the country.

Or closer to home maybe the German model that is seen with such envy.

Deutsche Bahn (literally "German Railway" in German) came into existence in 1994 as the successor to the former state railways of Germany, the Deutsche Bundesbahn ("German Federal Railway") of West Germany and the Deutsche Reichsbahn ("German ReichRailway") of East Germany.[5] It also gained ownership of former railway assets in West Berlin held by the Verwaltung des ehemaligen Reichsbahnvermögens (Administration of the Former Reichsbahn Assets).

 

[misterdog]

France, then.