Radford STA25 Mk III -- a lot of questions.

[crimsondonkey]

C'mon TBL, I think you're a bit harsh there

Not really. Ever been there to see how items are stored/ looked after?

Plenty of people who have never had a problem, but plenty of people who have.

My approach after several disappointments is if in doubt go somewhere else.

 

[stevec67]

In fact Emporium have been very good to deal with so far, we shall see how they respond to this. What I’m hoping is that they’ll have an engineer who can repair it quickly. It sounds as though they didn’t test the equipment very thoroughly before selling it - which is surprising for such an experienced dealer.
I’m sure it was an exploding capacitor, the problem is going to be finding out why. Emporium said that the smoothing capacitors were all new, but I’m not sure who did the job.

I've dealt with emporium, a long time ago. A mate has bought more recently, I wouldn't buy from him unless the price was extremely attractive and I'd budgeted for likely repairs. YMMV.

 

[Barrymagrec]

I have had no actual dealings with Emporium but I did once try to helpfully correct their listing details on a tape machine - they showed very little interest.

 

[Tony L]

The positive here is the STA25 is a very well built and simple amp. There is absolutely no question it can be fixed/restored. Just make sure it is done properly! I don’t know what budget is here, but if it was mine I’d be tempted to try and negotiate a decent part-refund with Emporium and then send it to the current Radford company as there is absolutely no doubt they’d do it right and in a way it stays done.

PS Jez is obviously an option too.

 

[crimsondonkey]

The positive here is the STA25 is a very well built and simple amp. There is absolutely no question it can be fixed/restored. Just make sure it is done properly! I don’t know what budget is here, but if it was mine I’d be tempted to try and negotiate a decent part-refund with Emporium and then send it to the current Radford company as there is absolutely no doubt they’d do it right and in a way it stays done.

PS Jez is obviously an option too.

Agree, that's what I'd do. Great amp and you can't go wrong with R Revival.

 

[mandryka]

The positive here is the STA25 is a very well built and simple amp. There is absolutely no question it can be fixed/restored. Just make sure it is done properly! I don’t know what budget is here, but if it was mine I’d be tempted to try and negotiate a decent part-refund with Emporium and then send it to the current Radford company as there is absolutely no doubt they’d do it right and in a way it stays done.

PS Jez is obviously an option too.

This is a good idea, Tony.

If someone - Jez, Radford Revival or whoever -- wants to PM me with a ballpark idea of costs of repair then that would be very helpful. I know it's hard to give an estimate without having the amp but it just would help me to know what to suggest to Emporium (who may well be reading this thread of course!)

 

[mandryka]

I've dealt with emporium, a long time ago. A mate has bought more recently, I wouldn't buy from him unless the price was extremely attractive and I'd budgeted for likely repairs. YMMV.

He gave me a fair price and that was partly because he was willing to do a part exchange for some old quad stuff that I wasn't using any more -- some preamps.

His service for delivery was excellent -- a guy called yesterday and dropped it off.

And of course he offered returns. Though in this case it's hardly necessary now -- the amp was faulty and my six hours with it were sufficient to make me fall in love with it -- it's something which I very much value and which I'm prepared to pay a premium for (just as I'm prepared to pay a premium for ebay or paypal protection.)

But it's obviously disappointing that the amp was faulty, and really surprising that he didn't test it more carefully before letting it go.

 

[stevec67]

Emporium have their own repair technicians. I'd have it back to them first. If not I'd be looking for a refund or similar. I wouldn't want to be out of pocket getting it repaired, but if that's less of a problem to you then you can make your own choices.

 

[Guest432]

Nick at Emporium is a nice guy and will do a deal if he's in the mood but can be a funny bugger, he doesn't check the kit he buys in and has a high failure rate. He is always quick to refund or sort the problem but I've dealt with him a number of times and have had problems with at least half of them.

 

[Vinny]

I don't see how anyone could claim that the amp' was faulty. It ran OK for 6 hours and there is, as yet, no indication of what went pop, or why. I suspect that you'd get no joy from a Court by simply claiming that the amp' was dud when purchased.

I have had cap's go down once, fortunately in a benign way. The ones that showed some blowing of the case were fine, one or more that looked fine was/were the dud(s). I replaced the blown ones first, and the fault persisted.

 

[John_73]

Nick at Emporium is a nice guy and will do a deal if he's in the mood but can be a funny bugger, he doesn't check the kit he buys in and has a high failure rate. He is always quick to refund or sort the problem but I've dealt with him a number of times and have had problems with at least half of them.

Same here. Bought a NAC 12 and NAP120 from him a couple years back. Both had been ‘checked over’ by their tech. Wasn’t impressed by the condition, so opened both up. The 120 had several melted components and cables, psu caps that had leaked and was in extremely unsafe condition. Needless to say I didn't attempt to power it up. Some polite emails were answered in a ‘gruff’ manner. Had to battle to get some money off. Wouldn’t deal with them again I’m afraid. Hope the Radford gets sorted out asap. Beautiful amp! Can vouch for Graeme at AmpRegen - a true gent who really knows his stuff. I’d go to Radford Revival in this instance though - Their attention to every detail is second to none, plus they build new Radford amps from scratch. Best of luck with it all.

 

[Tony L]

I don’t know Radford history too well, but it is clearly a very old amp and at this point its service history is unclear. I’d never make a comment on a Leak Stereo 20, Quad II or whatever unless I’d seen what it looked like underneath to establish what level of originality/restoration/outright botching existed. With 50+ year old amps it is usually safe to conclude that ‘doing it properly’ comprises a complete resistor and capacitor rebuild (ideally with as close to like-for-like parts as possible).

This is certainly how I approached my own Stereo 20, i.e. electrically it is as close to a brand new one as I feel possible and should hopefully have a similarly long life ahead. This is how I’d approach any classic amp such as this one. The STA25 is a true classic and a high quality sympathetic restoration (*not* botch/modification!) will both future-proof and add to the value. Consider it as something you’ll likely own for the rest of your life and don’t cmpromise!

 

[Guest432]

I don't see how anyone could claim that the amp' was faulty. It ran OK for 6 hours and there is, as yet, no indication of what went pop, or why.

Unfortunately electronics is not that simple.

I had an amp that would start to crackle badly in one channel after 3-4 hours, it was a pig to troubleshoot and turned out to be a dry joint that only failed when the internal temp got high enough for the pcb to heat up and the joint expanded.

 

[stevec67]

I don't see how anyone could claim that the amp' was faulty. It ran OK for 6 hours.

I beg your pardon! I can't see how anyone could possibly think other than it must have been faulty as sold! The fact that it only ran for 6 hours makes it even more probable. If this is your attitude to buying any second-hand item, can I let you know when I'm next selling a car? I promise that it will run until it gets to the end of the street.

 

[Barrymagrec]

If it ran for six hours it doesn`t automatically mean it was faulty on receipt or that the vendor knowingly supplied a faulty item. It could be that previous work was not carried out satisfactorily, or that ageing components were already on the way out but some faults may not show up if the unit was merely switched on for a few minutes and deemed "O.K."

It may have been a random component failure nothing to do with previous work or ageing components.

Nevertheless It is the responsibility of the vendor to either refund or repair the amplifier even though it was sold in good faith.

 

[Vinny]

I beg your pardon! I can't see how anyone could possibly think other than it must have been faulty as sold! The fact that it only ran for 6 hours makes it even more probable. If this is your attitude to buying any second-hand item, can I let you know when I'm next selling a car? I promise that it will run until it gets to the end of the street.

I think that you are living in fantasy land, Steve67. See comments by Barrymagrec, just as for instance. This was a USED item, not brand new, out of the box.
I have no idea under what conditions the amp' was sold, but if "sold as seen", tough. If there was a 6 month warranty, or whatever, fine. To PROVE that anything was wrong when it was sold would, in all probability, be essentially impossible.

The example of the car is a very poor one - private sales have essentially no cover under law - that's why so very few people buy used cars privately, me included, just not worth the risk.

.................Nevertheless It is the responsibility of the vendor to either refund or repair the amplifier even though it was sold in good faith...................

As a blanket statement, I think that your are on VERY thin ice with that too, or worse.

If Mandryka is honest in his dealings and admits that it worked OK for 6 hours............... If it had gone pop when he plugged it in, THAT is totally different.

That said, I suspect that Emporium will be sympathetic in dealing with the hassle.

 

[Tony L]

All depends how it was sold, e.g. if it was sold as ‘fully restored’ I’d expect a punter to come back with an issue, if ‘as-is’ not so. Some companies such as HiFi Hanger have a very clear disclaimer in their listings that whilst it is established to be working it is sold ‘as-is’, not as a serviced/restored item.

 

[stevec67]

Most vendors of repute supply a limited warranty. There is such a thing as the Sale of Goods Act in the UK (yes, I know that it has a new name and has been revised). I'm not living in any kind of fantasy land, in the real world where I live a vendor who earns his living selling used items and who has a testing facility on site has an obligation to ensure that the goods are "of merchantable quality" and "fit for purpose" when sold. (SAPOGAS Act 1982, Consumer Rights Act 2015). Any item that fails within 6 hours of being turned on is clearly neither of these. You are right that if the item was "sold as seen" then there is no comeback, however this is a particular case, rather like selling a car for spares or repairs. It's an offence for a motor dealer to sell a car for spares or repairs and then to allow the buyer to drive it off. He has to arrange delivery or transport so that it is clear that the car is not to be driven on a public road as sold.

If this amplifier has been sold as a working item, as the OP says it has apparently had some servicing work by the vendor, and it is not clearly sold "as seen" or "for spares or repairs" then the buyer is well within his rights to ask for, nay demand, a refund. I know very well that a TSO would see it this way and if the vendor did not comply a prosecution would be probable. I'm equally sure that the vendor in this case will not allow it to go to that, he has a reputation to uphold.

By the way, the example of a car is not a poor one as this is not a private sale as you suggest. It's a purchase from a trader so it's protected by precisely the same law as a car bought from a dealer.

 

[mik_rik]

Both channels taken out then probably psu.If smoothing caps have just been replaced then quite possibly under rated ,voltage wise ,capacitors may have been fitted i.e 375v instead of 450v.It also may have taken out the rectifier as in the '25 it is ss and not a valve rec as in the '15 which can take more "stick"

 

[Arkless Electronics]

OP PM'ed...

It may be that when two caps have apparently been used in series to get the voltage rating required it has been done without taking precautions to make sure they share the voltage fairly equally. It could also be a range of other things of course and without seeing it we can only speculate!