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Racism, sexism etc in sport.

Discussion in 'off topic' started by Tony Lockhart, Jan 22, 2023.

  1. Davd

    Davd pfm Member

    they are not dominating the elite women in the sport because they are not elite males or close to being elite males prior to transitioning.

    Now, what do you think would happen if an elite male athlete transitioned to female and started entering female competition-thats were it gets interesting as we could then compare like with like ie elite with transitioned elite.
    Sue Pertwee-Tyr and Woodface like this.
  2. Ted-M

    Ted-M pfm Member

    Where’s the ‘I don’t Like’ button when you need it?
    docstocker, Finnegan and narabdela like this.
  3. Bob McC

    Bob McC Living the life of Riley

    Decades of watching football on planet earth.
    Might be different on your planet.
    davcoll and narabdela like this.
  4. mykel

    mykel Perpetual Hack.

    Just to throw another twist.


    The athlete in question started transition pre-puberty, used puberty blockers etc.
    In this case the argument regarding post puberty bone / muscle mass pre-transition is moot, no?
    Are there any other physiological traits that elevate a typical boys strength, endurance, etc etc over the typical girl that would not be addressed by drug therapy and or surgery if begun pre-puberty?
  5. davidsrsb

    davidsrsb pfm Member

    Wasn't puberty blocking abused by female gymnasts at one point?
    I cannot see that MtoF switching pre-puberty with castration would have any physical advantage, but you are talking about children making very serious and long term medical choices
  6. PaulMB

    PaulMB pfm Member

    I must say there is a nightmarish aspect to all this; puberty blocking, lifelong hormones, castration, horrifying surgery (especially horrifying for woman-to-man). I wonder that to some individuals it can be so important to be of one gender rather than the other that they are willing to undergo this kind of lifelong torture.
  7. droodzilla

    droodzilla pfm Member

    I know several trans people, one of whom recently completed surgical transition (female to male), after having lived as a (partially transitioned) male for many years. He is one of the kindest, funniest people you could ever wish to meet and he's doing fine. Thanks for your concern though.
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2023
    paulfromcamden and Durmbo like this.
  8. stevec67

    stevec67 pfm Member

    I don't understand what goes through a person's mind to drive them to do this, but what people choose to do as adults is their own affair. I have much greater concerns over children who may elect to make life-changing changes before they are old enough to have fully worked out who they are and or want to be.
    docstocker and Cheese like this.
  9. PaulMB

    PaulMB pfm Member

    Glad to hear it.
  10. Woodface

    Woodface pfm Member

    From memory I seem to recall that female to male transition is far more common than the other way round. It’s probably a lot less traumatic in the early phases also, easier for women to wear man’s clothes etc.
  11. Seeker_UK

    Seeker_UK Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans

    Male to Female transition has historically been more prevalent, but this is now less so.
    Woodface likes this.
  12. claire.foxx

    claire.foxx Trans lives matter more than your feelings - ΘΔ

    This is a cis person offering an opinion on a trans person’s experience. Of course you’re going to think this, youre not trans. So why must you say this? The fear and body horror is pure projection. Castration to trans women with genital dysphoria is pure relief. I still wake up every morning so happy with how my coochie turned out. I’m able to function in the world now.

    Its not nightmarish to trans people, nor is it lifelong torture — again projection. Puberty blockers are a safe and established treatment for precocious puberty for several decades so we already know its effect in young people. Not needed post-surgery. Hormones are just two a week via many delivery methods: patches, pills, injections. Transition surgeries — a known way to deal with the anguish of dysphoria — have many successful outcomes with very few regretting it… of course the media latches onto the minority for y’all to rubberneck at but the vast vast vast outcome is overwhelmingly positive.

    FWIW many FtM trans men today don’t opt for lower surgeries, & double mastectomies ease the physical pain of daily chest binding allows transmascs to socially integrate the same way it saves trans women from a lifelong torture of tucking.

    Testosterone to transmascs is as affirming as estrogen/progestorone is to trans women. We take puberty blockers so we don’t need high doses of HRT but once snip snip happens, we just take HRT twice a week like any menopausal woman. I know people that take tylenol or ibuprofen more than that!

    One thing is common among MtF and FtM trans people — we wear our scars with pride.
  13. Durmbo

    Durmbo sister

    After a lifetime of workarounds & basic denial, I was astonished at how “right” I felt after starting oestrogen. I now have surgery in mind.
    Brown Bottle, Joe P, stevec67 and 4 others like this.
  14. paulfromcamden

    paulfromcamden Baffled

    This is one thing that occurred to me today thinking about a trans colleague in his early 20s. He's not 'confused' about his gender - he knows he's male, has done for a long time, and simply wants to feel 'right' in his body.
    Durmbo likes this.
  15. Durmbo

    Durmbo sister

    To get back on topic:

    New Zealand takes huge step forward with inclusive trans sport policy

    According to a statement from the organisation, the updated principles were created after requests from several national sporting organisations on trans athlete participation.

    “We want to help sports organisations because we know playing sport provides many physical and psychological benefits for individuals,” SNZ wrote.

    “These include providing the opportunity for people to socialise, build relationships, and engage with their communities.”

    It also explained that exclusion from sport can have a particularly harmful effect on mental health and can be “alienating”, especially to a group that already has “lived experience of mental distress”.

    It recommended various protective methods, such as respecting the right to privacy of a trans person’s situation, encouraging feedback, and reporting transphobic incidents.

    Additionally, the governing body explained the differences between subtle forms of discrimination – sometimes called ‘microaggressions’ – and overt bigotry.

    These include being questioned about paperwork, individuals asking “invasive questions” about their bodies, or being deliberately misgendered.
  16. PaulMB

    PaulMB pfm Member

    Thank you, Claire, for all of the above. I now understand a bit more than I did before.
  17. claire.foxx

    claire.foxx Trans lives matter more than your feelings - ΘΔ

    They can’t make life changing changes until they are legally adults. Puberty blockers are an established and well known decades old treatment for precocious puberty (and none of y’all have a “think of the children” hand-wringing shitfit when a child is prescribed puberty blockers for that). It s a temporary respite to pause puberty until adulthood, then *they* get to decide, as adults. Thems the rules.

    I correct people thinking this every time it crops up.

    If an AMAB child takes puberty blockers and as an adult wishes to transition, blockers stops a lot of the damage done by puberty: bone development, eye socket shape, nose definition, jawline contour, forehead and browline — all that pubertal bone development needs to be ground away, so it saves unnecessary and expensive surgeries (I had this in 2019). No laryngioplasty, voice breaking doesn’t happen, no electrolysis to remove facial hair. Its so much easier if they don’t go though it all. Adults transitioning after childhood puberty blockers get excellent results with very little invasive work.

    If they decide to carry on as male then they just stop puberty blockers and puberty resumes, no harm to reproductive ability as puberty was never started and T development is still well within a developmentally effective window.

    Listen to trans peoples stories. We’ve been there.
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2023
    stevec67, Durmbo and paulfromcamden like this.
  18. AndyU

    AndyU pfm Member

  19. stevec67

    stevec67 pfm Member

    Thanks Claire, and welcome back.
    mykel likes this.
  20. Finnegan

    Finnegan pfm Member

    I was suggesting mixed gender teams, rather than male vs female.

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