Racism, sexism etc in sport.

they are not dominating the elite women in the sport because they are not elite males or close to being elite males prior to transitioning.

Now, what do you think would happen if an elite male athlete transitioned to female and started entering female competition-thats were it gets interesting as we could then compare like with like ie elite with transitioned elite.

 

Where’s the ‘I don’t Like’ button when you need it?

 

Decades of watching football on planet earth.
Might be different on your planet.

 

Just to throw another twist.

Whatif...

The athlete in question started transition pre-puberty, used puberty blockers etc.
In this case the argument regarding post puberty bone / muscle mass pre-transition is moot, no?
Are there any other physiological traits that elevate a typical boys strength, endurance, etc etc over the typical girl that would not be addressed by drug therapy and or surgery if begun pre-puberty?

 

Wasn't puberty blocking abused by female gymnasts at one point?
I cannot see that MtoF switching pre-puberty with castration would have any physical advantage, but you are talking about children making very serious and long term medical choices

 

I must say there is a nightmarish aspect to all this; puberty blocking, lifelong hormones, castration, horrifying surgery (especially horrifying for woman-to-man). I wonder that to some individuals it can be so important to be of one gender rather than the other that they are willing to undergo this kind of lifelong torture.

 

I know several trans people, one of whom recently completed surgical transition (female to male), after having lived as a (partially transitioned) male for many years. He is one of the kindest, funniest people you could ever wish to meet and he's doing fine. Thanks for your concern though.

 

I don't understand what goes through a person's mind to drive them to do this, but what people choose to do as adults is their own affair. I have much greater concerns over children who may elect to make life-changing changes before they are old enough to have fully worked out who they are and or want to be.

 

Glad to hear it.

 

From memory I seem to recall that female to male transition is far more common than the other way round. It’s probably a lot less traumatic in the early phases also, easier for women to wear man’s clothes etc.

 

Male to Female transition has historically been more prevalent, but this is now less so.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33644314/

 

This is a cis person offering an opinion on a trans person’s experience. Of course you’re going to think this, youre not trans. So why must you say this? The fear and body horror is pure projection. Castration to trans women with genital dysphoria is pure relief. I still wake up every morning so happy with how my coochie turned out. I’m able to function in the world now.

Its not nightmarish to trans people, nor is it lifelong torture — again projection. Puberty blockers are a safe and established treatment for precocious puberty for several decades so we already know its effect in young people. Not needed post-surgery. Hormones are just two a week via many delivery methods: patches, pills, injections. Transition surgeries — a known way to deal with the anguish of dysphoria — have many successful outcomes with very few regretting it… of course the media latches onto the minority for y’all to rubberneck at but the vast vast vast outcome is overwhelmingly positive.

FWIW many FtM trans men today don’t opt for lower surgeries, & double mastectomies ease the physical pain of daily chest binding allows transmascs to socially integrate the same way it saves trans women from a lifelong torture of tucking.

Testosterone to transmascs is as affirming as estrogen/progestorone is to trans women. We take puberty blockers so we don’t need high doses of HRT but once snip snip happens, we just take HRT twice a week like any menopausal woman. I know people that take tylenol or ibuprofen more than that!

One thing is common among MtF and FtM trans people — we wear our scars with pride.

 

After a lifetime of workarounds & basic denial, I was astonished at how “right” I felt after starting oestrogen. I now have surgery in mind.

 

This is one thing that occurred to me today thinking about a trans colleague in his early 20s. He's not 'confused' about his gender - he knows he's male, has done for a long time, and simply wants to feel 'right' in his body.

 

To get back on topic:

New Zealand takes huge step forward with inclusive trans sport policy

https://www.thepinknews.com/2022/12...thletes-participate-without-proving-identity/

According to a statement from the organisation, the updated principles were created after requests from several national sporting organisations on trans athlete participation.

“We want to help sports organisations because we know playing sport provides many physical and psychological benefits for individuals,” SNZ wrote.

“These include providing the opportunity for people to socialise, build relationships, and engage with their communities.”

It also explained that exclusion from sport can have a particularly harmful effect on mental health and can be “alienating”, especially to a group that already has “lived experience of mental distress”.

It recommended various protective methods, such as respecting the right to privacy of a trans person’s situation, encouraging feedback, and reporting transphobic incidents.

Additionally, the governing body explained the differences between subtle forms of discrimination – sometimes called ‘microaggressions’ – and overt bigotry.

These include being questioned about paperwork, individuals asking “invasive questions” about their bodies, or being deliberately misgendered.

 

Thank you, Claire, for all of the above. I now understand a bit more than I did before.

 

They can’t make life changing changes until they are legally adults. Puberty blockers are an established and well known decades old treatment for precocious puberty (and none of y’all have a “think of the children” hand-wringing shitfit when a child is prescribed puberty blockers for that). It s a temporary respite to pause puberty until adulthood, then *they* get to decide, as adults. Thems the rules.

I correct people thinking this every time it crops up.

If an AMAB child takes puberty blockers and as an adult wishes to transition, blockers stops a lot of the damage done by puberty: bone development, eye socket shape, nose definition, jawline contour, forehead and browline — all that pubertal bone development needs to be ground away, so it saves unnecessary and expensive surgeries (I had this in 2019). No laryngioplasty, voice breaking doesn’t happen, no electrolysis to remove facial hair. Its so much easier if they don’t go though it all. Adults transitioning after childhood puberty blockers get excellent results with very little invasive work.

If they decide to carry on as male then they just stop puberty blockers and puberty resumes, no harm to reproductive ability as puberty was never started and T development is still well within a developmentally effective window.

Listen to trans peoples stories. We’ve been there.

 

Trans women are not currently competitive at elite levels, but female athletes with DSD - XY chromosomes and the ability to produce and use testosterone - certainly are. Two of the eight women’s 200m finalists at the Tokyo Olympics were reported to fall in this category. One placed second, the other sixth.

https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/s...nters-resurrect-paradox-dsd-rules-2021-08-03/

 

Thanks Claire, and welcome back.

 

I was suggesting mixed gender teams, rather than male vs female.