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Racism, sexism etc in sport.

Discussion in 'off topic' started by Tony Lockhart, Jan 22, 2023.

  1. Finnegan

    Finnegan pfm Member

    Yet this is not what is happening in the limited examples available to us. Transwomen are not wholly dominating the sports they are competing in.
     
  2. Finnegan

    Finnegan pfm Member

    No, puberty is not an assumption. Stating that trans women have a definite, scientifically validated advantage is, in my opinion, an assumption. That is what you took issue with. But it seems now you are arguing something completely different.
     
  3. Ted-M

    Ted-M pfm Member

    This is the key point - mixed sex sport does not work, if you had mixed elite football you basically wouldn't have any female players. And you don't need to be involved with elite sport to realise this, I work with weekend youth football and we play mixed under 12s, beyond that the physical differences are simply too great, and it's not close.
     
    docstocker, Weekender and Davd like this.
  4. stevec67

    stevec67 pfm Member

    FFS, this is where we started! I'm done talking to you.
     
    flatpopely, MikeMA and narabdela like this.
  5. Finnegan

    Finnegan pfm Member

    Yes, you’ve said that previously, but generally continue to post. In post #9 you stated “It's not questionable, it's the biological fact of having gone through a male puberty. This is acknowledged by sports physiologist s to confer a biological advantage.” You then go on to contradict yourself in post #125, where you state “Unless we can prove that neither has an advantage. And there, the jury is firmly out.” And on that basis then try to characterise your argument all along as establishing the existence of puberty. Risible.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2023
  6. Bob McC

    Bob McC Living the life of Riley

    What utter tosh!
    Women’s football is still light years away from men in terms of stamina, technique and speed. No top woman footballer is comparable to a top man. It’s laughable to even suggest it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2023
    zeon, Weekender and Woodface like this.
  7. Cheese

    Cheese Bitter lover

    Pushing it a bit, I just imagine the gracile, geisha-sized footballeress trying to stop an Erling Haaland in full swing... she'd find herself on the bleachers in the fanzone :D
     
  8. Woodface

    Woodface pfm Member

    This is a bit like that economic debate for a while ago.

    Does anyone on her have any real expertise & knowledge. I know Steve67 is rather clever so I doubt he is wrong on this. Others seem to confuse science fact with opinion.
     
  9. stevec67

    stevec67 pfm Member

    Steady on. :)

    It does rather remind me of the time I had the Jehovah's Witnesses call. "Had I ever considered where we came from?" Cue a pamphlet showing dinosaurs, humans and other mammals apparently coexisting. "Yes, I have actually. I studied it as part of my degree, albeit a number of years ago. The evolutionary model is highly convincing and supported by a good deal of scientific evidence." After a brief discussion they then seemed to be in a hurry to get to the next house to hand out more leaflets, a shame, one of them was quite cute and it was a nice day.
     
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  10. Finnegan

    Finnegan pfm Member

    The expert, rather than the ‘some guy on an internet forum’ view.

    “A report on transgender women athletes in elite sport has found that if UCI rules are adhered to, there is currently no substantial evidence of any biological advantages for trans women competing in elite women’s sport.

    It found there was little evidence that biomedical factors related to male puberty such as lung size, bone density and hip-to-knee joint angle predict an unfair advantage. But some evidence that social factors like nutrition, training and access to equipment do.”

    https://www.cces.ca/sites/default/f...esandelitesport-ascientificreview-e-final.pdf

    https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/trans-women-athletes-have-no-unfair-advantage-under-current-rules-study-finds?utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social
     
  11. Finnegan

    Finnegan pfm Member

    Perhaps, perhaps not. But if Wesley Sneijder was capable of playing against the world’s greatest defenders, then can’t think why a woman of equal skill could not do likewise.
     
  12. Finnegan

    Finnegan pfm Member

    What criteria was employed to arrive at that assessment Bob?
     
  13. narabdela

    narabdela who?

    I would imagine that a working knowledge of the game and a decent amount of common sense would be the answer here.
     
    MikeMA, Weekender and Cheese like this.
  14. Cheese

    Cheese Bitter lover

    Common sense is out of fashion at the mo.
     
    narabdela likes this.
  15. Finnegan

    Finnegan pfm Member

    The “common sense” view. Frequently indistinguishable from the “it’s obvious innit?” view, aka the argument of the pub bore.

    There was a credible view expressed earlier in this thread that stated mixed gender sports being potentially off putting to women. Probably nowhere as off-putting than an old sexist telling women they can’t hope to emulate men at football.

    It’s a view that was abysmally outdated 12 years ago when Andy Gray and Richard Keys were sacked by Sky Sports for saying women were unfit to officiate at football matches and no less abysmal now.
     
  16. Paul R

    Paul R pfm Member

    This 'report' is laughable bunk.

    Why are you so keen to erase 'female'? Genuinely interested to know where this impulse comes from.
     
  17. Woodface

    Woodface pfm Member

    There is no real proper data on this, if testosterone has no advantage then why is it a banned substance?

    The idea that men & women can compete on the same level is laughable.

    Cycling is also a really poor example as participation levels are way higher in males compared to females. More participation means more competition & higher standards.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2023
  18. PaulMB

    PaulMB pfm Member

    Nothing wrong with "common sense." Certainly better than an ideological position that equates "common sense" with "The pub bore" or "An old sexist." It saddens me, on this forum, when anyone who even mildly disagrees with a supposedly progressive or enlightened point of view is blithely branded a fascist, racist, sexist, a Tory, or lately "gammon." Surely the progressive and enlightened position should be tolerant and respectful of other opinions.
    This last sentence is not aimed at you Finnegan, of course, since you are certainly determined and persistent, but always gentle and affable.
     
  19. Weekender

    Weekender pfm Member

    Bob (and I and others) watch a lot of football.
    Women's football has come on in leaps and bounds and I think will continue to improve but there is always going to be a significant difference. In my old sexist opinion.

    Or via Google:
    - Manchester United women beaten 9-0 by Salford youth team.
    - Arsenal Women suffer an 5-0 defeat by their boys' U15 side in behind closed doors friendly.
    - Athletic Bilbao's male youngsters have beaten their women's team 6-0 in a friendly.
    The academy side, made up of 14, 15 and 16 year olds, secured a huge win against their professional opponents ahead of the new season.
    - Australian women's national team lose 7-0 to team of 15-year-old boys.
    - U.S. women’s national team played the FC Dallas U-15 boys academy team on Sunday and fell 5-2, according to FC Dallas’ official website.
    - Gremio Men's Under 16s Beat Brazil Women's National Team 6-0 In Intergender Match.

    Mind no one can stop Haaland. Stop the supply to Haaland is the (easier said than done) answer...he can't score if he doesn't have the ball.
     
  20. MikeMA

    MikeMA pfm Member

    You should know by now these don't count in pfm world.;)
     
    Cheese and narabdela like this.

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