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Question to owners of Rega 3000 & 2000

Discussion in 'audio' started by colasblue, Aug 1, 2021.

  1. colasblue

    colasblue pfm Member

    Given the deals on these at present I'm considering a punt.

    My question is "Do these arms have detachable armleads?"

    If they don't and you're saddled with whatever whatever they come with I'm less keen.
     
  2. linnfomaniac83

    linnfomaniac83 I bet you can’t wheelie a unicycle!

    No, fixed arm lead, albeit a very decent one. I absolutely wouldn’t be put off by it. You can get a DIN socket fitted into the arm base if you really wanted to use different arm leads.
     
    Mr Pig likes this.
  3. colasblue

    colasblue pfm Member

    I really want to use about 6 inches of litz directly into a phono stage. Hence the question.

    I've seen a few conversion kits on ebay for not a lot but I'm not over keen on modding a brand new thing and consequently devaluing it. I presume the norm is continuous connection from the cartridge to the preamp with no breaks.

    I already have a j7 modded Rb250 (with Din connection) and wired with something posh (not quite sure what but it isn't Cardas or Ikeda).

    I'm already very happy with that so another relevant question is "What sort of improvement should I expect from going further up the ladder?"
     
  4. DimitryZ

    DimitryZ pfm Member

    I recommend Cardas rewiring by Take Five Audio in Canada, if one isn't happy with stock wiring. My RB1000 had that done.

    However, the new RB880 seemed really fine to me, so I didn't bother.
     
  5. Voyd the Voyd

    Voyd the Voyd Active Member


    Kondo perhaps?
     
  6. Mr Pig

    Mr Pig ^'- -'^

    No. There is a plastic bung in the base of the arm, same one used on all current Rega arms. which is held in by a single grub screw. Remove the screw and the bung slides out revealing the solder joins on the back of it where the outer and inner cables are joined. It's easy to unsolder those and remove the outer cable. Audio Origami and others can fit new outer cables if you don't fancy doing it yourself.

    It's worth noting that Rega, Linn, Audio Origami and pretty much every other tonearm manufacturer use different external and internal cables. I've spoken to Johnnie and about this and he explained that, in his opinion, single cable runs are stupid. There are several reasons.

    The demands on each cable are sufficiently different that one cable is worse than two. One of the most important aspects of the inner cable is that is does not restrict the movement of the arm. On high-performance arms one of the main advances is the use of very carefully adjusted high quality bearings. The inner cable has to be very thin and flexible or it can impede that free movement. The outer cable wants to be more robust and a better, thicker conductor can be used as you're not constrained by the need to be super flexible.

    If you look at the wire used in single-wire kits it's a compromise as there is no way you could use the internal wire in an RB2000/3000 all the way to the amp. It's far too thin, take a look in the gap between the arm and the bearing boss and you'll see it. So your super duper new cable is going to undo all the work Rega did getting the bearings as good as they can be. The arm will work, but not at the level it's designed to. Your internal cable is too thick.

    Which leads onto the next point. If you fit the new cable yourself, the chances of you getting it dressed correctly so that it does not negatively effect the movement of the arm is close to zero. If you just pull the new cable through with the old one I'd say it is zero.

    The internal cable has to be positioned very carefully so that the arm is totally free to move in all directions. It is not pulled tight inside the arm, there is a loop of cable just above the exit point on the arm tube. Also, there are rubber grommets in the arm pillar which hold the cable central and allow the top section of the cable to swing back and forwards. Pulling a cable through there is going to move those grommets, it might pull them out altogether. Without tools and taking the arm apart you're not getting them back in the right place, if you even know what that is?

    And the whole point of this is what? To remove one or two solder joins from the signal chain? Your amplifier and digital kit probably have hundreds in them! If they were really such a disaster don't you think that all tonearm manufacturers would use single cable runs? They could, couldn't they? In fact many are complete idiots as they use plug connections at the base of the arms. The fools. Know they nothing?

    I'm not saying that you cannot find a cable that is better than the one fitted out of the box, certainty on lower end arms. But the cable on an RB3000 is going to be pretty ok. I'd imagine any improvement you can find will be marginal if anything and you could make the arm worse.
     
    Snufkin, Robn and Craig B like this.
  7. colasblue

    colasblue pfm Member

    Ah so the cabling isn't actually continuous and I'm therefore not proposing anything irreversible.

    I'd assumed the stock Rega thing was continuous, possibly because one of the Cardas replacement options is and the Michell Tecnoarm wiring claims to be. I think both those companies know at least a bit so not such an "off the wall thought" perhaps.

    It's actually not that the stock cabling is good, bad or indifferent, it's that my system currently doesn't use any sort of normal Armlead and it would be inconvenient to alter it so that it did.
     
    Mr Pig likes this.
  8. Mr Pig

    Mr Pig ^'- -'^

    No. You could remove the external cable and refit it later no problem. Take a little care but easy enough to do. Just don't pull the plug out too far or you will pull the cable through the pillar and muck up the cable dressing.
     
  9. Darren L

    Darren L pfm Member

    That's why the Cardas (incognito) rewired Rega or one of the reasons why the Technoarm is an improvement on the stock Rega wiring.
     
  10. colasblue

    colasblue pfm Member

    So back to the other part of the question. "What improvement over the modded RB250 I already have might I expect if I went for one of these more expensive options, other than it looks a bit shinier and the bias is certainly easier to set?"

    Also what exactly is the difference between the RB2000 and RB3000? They both look exactly the same and the Rega blurb on them is exactly the same.

    Only the 3000 seems to be a current product though the 2000 can't be long discontinued.
     
  11. Darren L

    Darren L pfm Member

    Better bearings, being hand selected for each individual tonearm.
     
  12. linnfomaniac83

    linnfomaniac83 I bet you can’t wheelie a unicycle!

    Firmer bass, clearer and more focused mid range, better top end detail retrieval.

    The RB250/300 and their later developments have always been pretty impossible to beat for the money, but they can be beaten for more money, and the higher model Rega arms are quite an improvement on them.
     
  13. colasblue

    colasblue pfm Member

    I appreciate that Rega may well be making them better, but J7's fettling presumably also moves the stock thing in the same direction so the comparison isn't with the stock item as such. My arm doesn't have any extra holes in it but other than that it could be up there with audiomods and the tecnoarm.

    I'm not the first owner and the exact history is a bit vague but my RB250 has had at least the strip and polish, upgraded stub & weight, probably Kondo rewire and DIN plug mod. If somebody was spending that much they would have to be a bit tight not to also have the bearing upgrades. I'm not sure if it's been stuffed or not and the only further option would have been to have it gold, silver or chrome plated.
     
  14. linnfomaniac83

    linnfomaniac83 I bet you can’t wheelie a unicycle!

    I honestly can’t say how it’d compare to your modded arm, but I had a Michell Technoarm and a Rega RB700, I preferred the RB700… the RB700 was improved with the Technoweight and really had a clear lead over the Technoarm which to me says that the fundamental structure of the RB700, the pillar/base, yoke and bearings are better than the RB250 that the Technoarm is based on and that is what is accounting for the difference in SQ. I had them mounted on a Rega P5 with GT-reference sub platter and Neo PSU for what it’s worth.
     
    Darren L likes this.
  15. colasblue

    colasblue pfm Member

    That's certainly useful to know.
     
  16. Mr Pig

    Mr Pig ^'- -'^

    I've had both side by side here and, apart from the different bias slider, they are outwardly identical. I've carefully looked over the whole arm and could find no visible differences at all. Apparently the difference is better bearings and tighter tolerances. In use, I'd expect the difference to be slight. I bought the 3000 simply because, why not? It didn't cost much more.

    As you go up the Rega tonearm range it's all incremental changes but the big one on the top arms is the absence of paint. This really makes a big difference and in my opinion is what sets these arms apart.
     
  17. colasblue

    colasblue pfm Member

    I've captured one according to Ebay so I shall soon see (or hear).

    I'll wait to make sure it goes through before ordering a VTA adjuster and the Din plug kit.
     
  18. Mr Pig

    Mr Pig ^'- -'^

    I doubt you'll be disappointed. This LP12 with RB3000 I've got here is just beautiful. I'm delighted with it. Probably the best way I could describe these arms is that they don't seem at have a sound. They just let you hear what the turntable and cartridge are doing, very clearly.
     
    Mickdale and linnfomaniac83 like this.

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