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PVC outer sleeves

Discussion in 'music' started by Tony L, Apr 30, 2022.

  1. hockman

    hockman pfm Member

    I'd even go further. I would put the record with its inner sleeve in a separate sealeable bag to minimize any potential exposure to the gas from the PVC outer sleeve. As I've said, I have experienced PVC-related damage from leaching through cardboard and plastic inner sleeves.

    For me, there's no upside to taking any risk and there are alternative solutions.
  2. The Bish

    The Bish pfm Member

    Are the clear plastic outer bags that audiophile records like Tone Poets come in likely to be PVC? I’ve kept all of mine in those bags for now on the basis that I want to keep it all intact.
  3. gavreid

    gavreid pfm Member

    That'll be polythene, I'm sure.
    The Bish likes this.
  4. vince rocker

    vince rocker pfm Member

    Does anyone have a source for poly outers for really fat sleeves? I do the "one cover on each arm of a gatefold" thing for a few, but for example Matthew Halsall's "Oneness" is 3 LPs* in a single sleeve over 10mm wide and I can't find anything to fit (even with actual vinyl not stored in the cover).
    * Amusingly called Oneness, Twooness and Threeeness :)
  5. daytona600

    daytona600 Registered User

    Over sized sleeves designed for 2LP 45rpm Mofi / Analogue Productions / Impex etc will fit Some triples & quads or Small box set covers

    vince rocker likes this.
  6. InSides

    InSides pfm Member

    Confirmed, that is polyethylene, typically ~2um.
    Whaleblue and gavreid like this.
  7. davidismynaim

    davidismynaim pfm Member

    I know I wrote earlier that I had no damage and that I would continue with PVC. A couple of things, I am not a big collector, and as I have said, 99% of all my original records purchased in the late 70s are still ok today, all were and are still covered by PVC. However, after careful examination, I have found one damaged record. Bob Dylan, Blonde on Blonde. The PVC outer has 'bonded' itself to the cover, to the point that to 'unstick it' causes damage to the printed cover. The records have the haze others have reported. So it is clear this damage can and does occur, but, in my case, it is only one record out of 100's.

    It makes me want to understand the circumstances for this one record out of 100's to be affected. One possible factor was the make of the PVC cover, it was I believe of inferior quality to the others that I used back in the day, another possible factor was I never likely the album at the time, thereby it never got played. So it is probably one of the very few albums that remained unloved and unplayed in this PVC cover, for all that time.

    I know I will horrify many, but I am continuing to use new high-quality PVC covers, I won't buy any more and I have replaced all old PVC covers that have that 'cellulite' look about them, bumpy, lumpy quality, as I think they both detract from the beauty of the cover and maybe 'on the way out' Most of my old covers and new ones too are in smooth, high-quality PVC covers. Now I am attuned to this issue, and it is clearly an issue, I will monitor carefully. If I see any others going the way of Dyan, then I will remove all and swap them all out. But I feel I need more than 1 failure in 40 years to justify such a swap out (for me that's a judgement, I feel I can take, but I totally get those who have many £1000's invested in their collection, why they would not take even this risk).

    I just wanted to share my experiences. I also bought some nice gate folder covers from Spincare along with their inners off Amazon, both are of good quality in my view and the outers are PVC free and very clear and do not suffer the poor quality of the old-style non-PVC covers of yesteryear. Link here 25x 12 Inch GATEFOLD Outer Vinyl Record Sleeves | CRYSTAL Super Clear Covers Fit Single Double Triple Albums & LPs | PVC & Acid-Free Protective Plastic Sleeves | Clean & Crisp Polypropylene: Electronics & Photo
  8. Whaleblue

    Whaleblue Southbound

    This is really annoying. Even though I’ll be dead well before another 40 years elapses I’ve now had to go out and buy the Nagaoka “archive” sleeves to replace the recently bought PVC ones. £160, and will likely need more!

    All good fun!
  9. vinylmonkey

    vinylmonkey pfm Member

    I've somehow only just read about PVC "off gassing" and the harm it can do to records.

    If the records are in anti-stat HDPE inners, are PVC outers to protect the record sleeve a terrible idea? Is there a better (less slippery more protective) alternative than polythene outers?
  10. Vinny

    Vinny pfm Member

    PVC DOES NOT OFF-GAS, despite what numerous numpties broadcast on the www.

    PLASTICISED PVC (records are PVC - UNPLASTICISED) is plasticised with various compounds, many of the common ones being oily, high-boiling, low vapor pressure liquids - frequently phthalate esters. Over time, the plasticisers migrate to some degree, in exactly the same manner as a piece of fatty meat placed on paper will produce a grease spot as the mobile components in the fat migrate through the fibre matrix of the paper.

    Migration of plasticiser through a record sleeve and inner sleeve is unpredicatable - plenty here have had records in PVC sleeves for ages and seen no problem. Others have seen carnage.

    Polyester, poly-ethylene and poly-propylene do not contain plasticisers.

    2 microns? LLLLOL, I think not - photo-copier paper is commonly either 75 or 100 microns, 10 micron is thinner than a very thin thing, let alone 2 microns.
    As an educated guess metric, imperial and American film thickness numbers (gauge and mil) are getting mixed up.
    One imperial thou is (near enough) 25 metric microns, and also called a mil in the US. A single US gauge is 0.01 mil - roughly 0.25 metric microns.
  11. vinylmonkey

    vinylmonkey pfm Member

    Thanks Vinny.

    As others have said, it's a shame to take the risk - especially as the PVC sleeves seem to provide best physical protection to the record sleeve.

    All, any pointers please for a heavier weight non-PVC outer that fits reasonably snug? I've some Spincare "Density" polythene ones that are quite good but (like many) slip/slide/bunch a bit when putting records back on the shelf.
  12. InSides

    InSides pfm Member

    Cool, thanks for clearing that up.

    I guess it was 2mils then?
    Vinny likes this.
  13. Vinny

    Vinny pfm Member

    Indeed so.
    I have to say that what happens after I exit, bothers me not at all, similarly the condition of the outer sleeves, so I do not use any protective outer sleeves for records. I am heading for retirement PDQ so have always bought records, so they do not have the collectability etc. factors that they do to many younger buyers.
    I do care about record condition, so have been using Nagaoka inner sleeves for 30-some years.

    I was shocked/amazed yesterday when a new LP turned-up in a heavy PVC sleeve, no outer sleeve/jacket at all. I hope that that isn't the start of a coming trend.
  14. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    That was the way picture disks were regularly packaged, though no one could tell if they sounded any worse years later than when new! I've seen some coloured vinyl sold with printed PVC outers too, but I’d have hoped folk would have learned now the long-term risks are well documented.

    PS What LP was it?
  15. Vinny

    Vinny pfm Member

    Good point. Also about average sound of pic' discs...

    New arrival in PVC - Puma Blue, B sides, live recordings (same title as the actual, original LP - In Praise of Shadows)

    Puma Blue - The official website for Puma Blue
  16. Colonel_Mad

    Colonel_Mad pfm Member

    2mm seems way too thick I think. That would be a fifth of a cm. I know the Spincare PE sleeves I use are 100um, which is a tenth of a mm.
  17. InSides

    InSides pfm Member

    I never mentioned milimeteres. :)

    "2 mils" as in 0.002 inches.
    Colonel_Mad likes this.
  18. eguth

    eguth pfm Member

    Out of sunlight and vertical stacked here as well, David. No problems. Some of my records were made in the 40s. 41 years storage here. Don't know how stored previously. I put this good down to my Daikin air purifier - that no other pfmer uses. This purifier avoids problems. It also guards your health, since it removes some 50+ contaminants.

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