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"projecting" speakers

hughmc2

pfm Member
I posted a thread asking advice on upgrading without knowing what it was I wasn't happy with. Well now I do and I need some advice.
Until recently I was using some Quad 11L's in a smaller room but we had a change around and I moved into a bigger room so bought some Quad 21L's
But it hasn't worked out.:mad:
Sharleen Spiteri on "Southside" ( vinyl ) has moved to the back of the soundstage. Yes I get more of everything but the vocals and acoustic side have now been set back in an admittedly wider soundstage.
I now realise this isn't the sound I'm looking for. I need some floorstanders ( less than 900mm high...don't ask :rolleyes: ) that project into the room.
A guy is selling some Neat Elite SE. Does anybody have experience of these will they give me what I'm looking for or should I be looking at something else ? :confused::confused:

Arcam A32, CD23, Tech 1210, MF X-can V2, CA640P, Grado 80i, Denon TU1800
 
I had exactly the same problem when we moved into our new place. Previously I was used to listening in the nearfield which yielded an intimate and involving sound which I loved.

After the move I was sat much further away from the speakers and everything sounded small and distant. I went through a few different speakers to try and solve the problem (PMC FB1+, Living Voice Avatar II, Spendor S8e and Proac 1SC) and in the end the solution was a pair of Shahinian Arcs.

These bounce sound around the room and so thrive in a far field setting. The result? My room is effortlessly filled with music :)

Lefty
 
Lefty,
thanks for the input but this is different somehow. Lots of bits are up there in my face but the vocals have moved away ?? How does that work.?
I'm sure there are lots of guys out there who would know the terminology for what I'm trying to say but it's got me stumped. Are the 21L's spreading the vocals too wide to get to me or is that just the sound of me talkng rubbish ?
 
How far apart are they and how are they toed?

Loudspeakers, unless of the stadium variety, should not be more than 6-8 foot apart unless you're seated more than 10 feet away. Ideally, you and them should form an isosceles triangle.

Start with the loudspeakers square, then toe them inwards until a simple recording of a voice is correctly sized and sound like it's coming from a point in-between the loudspeakers.

James
 
Ok so I've moved them another 4" from the back wall, set them 8' apart and slightly toed in. The sound has improved.

At first I thought it was a massive improvement but that was only because I had Radiohead, Insomniac ( CD ) playing. I never had this CD when I was using the 11L's so had no point of reference. It sounded bloody incredible. So I put the Texas LP on and Sharleen was still "recessed". Not like before, but not up front, centre stage.

How can she be the dominant factor on the small speakers in a little room then shrink into the shadows through the bigger speakers in a bigger room. Has the extra bass, etc overwhelmed the vocals ???

Perhaps only a home demo on some likely suspects will solve it.

Is Hifi always like this :(
 
How can she be the dominant factor on the small speakers in a little room then shrink into the shadows through the bigger speakers in a bigger room. Has the extra bass, etc overwhelmed the vocals ???
It's a distinct probability.

Is Hifi always like this :(
Only if you're listening for hifi artefacts and not for the music.

James
 
Have you heard this Texas recording sound good previously? the fact that the Radiohead CD sounded good implies to me that it's the recording and not the speakers.
 
Are you using any room treatment? Is your floor carpeted, wood, concrete? are there drapes curtains etc. What do the speakers back onto, paneled walls, brick, concrete? all of these seemingly insignificant things affect vocals.
 
sounds similar to when i put some new speakers in, but inadvertantly put one out-of phase. thought they sucked bigtime for a few days, vocals all distant and in funny place.. relief when i sorted it!
 
I'm listening to Southside now on my Bozak system.

Nice lp. Typical digital era recording with guitars having that glassy sound to them.

Percussion takes very slight precedence over vocals in the soundstage. Their general style is to cut in lead guitar when she's not singing, so it's not often that you get vocals and lead guitar at the same time. Bass guitar is behind drums, vocals and lead guitar. Keyboards are pushed towards the back when they're used. She sings harmony with herself a lot. When she's singing solo a fair bit of reverb is used. Kick drums are rather recessed, making percussion rather midrangey. Overall there's good clarity and decent dynamic range on this record, with a few catchy tunes.

Anyway, if that Spittery girl's been pushed to the back of the soundstage then the OP's system would be too smooth / recessed / lacking in clarity in the midrange for me.


My suggestion, if we're sticking to small speakers, would be to replace the 21L's with something like Klipsch Cornwalls. Something with more midrange life about them.
 
thanks all for your input.

I put the 11L's back in place of the 21L's in the new listening room just to see. The vocals were up front again but there was so much top and bottom detail missing.

So the floorstanders are 90% better, but not quite bang on.

With all that knowledge out there can we have suggestions please - used floorstander, less than 900mm high, good projection, work well with Arcam A32 CD23, in a room with oak floor / rug / wood blinds / big canvas on wall behind listening position. Spend up to £700

http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee443/hughmc2/stereo018.jpg
 
Tannoy system 10, 12 or 15" monitors. If you can put up with the looks (some people think they look great).

The midrange on my old 10 inchers projected well into the room. And they were great at any volume, low or high.
They don't make them anymore though, so you'd have to find a secondhand pair.


images
 
Nice big pair of big bass cabs (pref folded / back loaded horn) and mid horns / tweeters;-) Make Tannoy look great:), but boy do they make the music come alive!
 
this is a big apology to all the people who have tried to assist me with my problem.:D

It wasn't the distance from the wall, although that helped or the turntable mat, or the room synergy or the LP itself...........



It was the knob sitting on the sofa who hadn't made sure all the interconnects into the CA640P were pushed all in the way when he moved the system from the little room to the big room.

I know I am.....but I sure ain't the only one.......
 


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