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Proac D18/D20, PMC GB/FB/24/25, Spendor A4/A7, or Neats?

topa

Sans CDPs
You guessed it, I'm looking into new speakers.

I dropped the idea of active floorstanders, and am prowling the s/h market for those listed in the title, aiming for buy&try and home, and maybe sell again if not contempt.

Needs to be an entertaining (lively) speaker which can play EVERYTHING, Drum&Bass to Jazz, MP3 to 24/96. No earth shaking bass necessary, actually I prefer just a good kick, but I need a healthy full midrange and sonor voices. Easy on the treble please, and musical flow over analytical details everytime.
Will be powered by Exposure Gear with plenty of grunt.

From what I have gathered:
-Neats (and Kudos) are entertaining, but can have bass issues. (1st Gen. Momentums available right now!)
-PMC seem hit&miss, although entertaining and capable, looking back most people were glad to change.
-Spendor A4/A7 sound interesting, but could be a bit pipe&slippers? Never cared much for the S3/5 stuff.
-Proac appears to be the best suited of all, I liked the Tablets I've heard, very even performance across all genres.

My history: Keilidh,Kaber,B&W804,SA2k,Tukan,Kan,IBL,SBL,ES11,Elan30.
 
-PMC seem hit&miss, although entertaining and capable, looking back most people were glad to change.

I’m sitting in a a 5m x 3.5m x 3m room. 2m away from a pair of PMC GB1is that are 2m apart.

I’ve got cash in the bank but given that I’m never going to try to use my Sugden A21 to take these beyond 80db, I struggle to believe that at this listening distance they can be bettered.

The dinky cabinets are small and unobtrusive and, of course, don’t need stands.

They seem to go for around £500 now. The sound is unerringly sweet and neutral and given the range of things I listen to that’s a big boring plus;)

I’ll follow this thread with interest because I’m well placed to move on. I’m also convinced that your room and volume requirements are key here and that should be the starting point of a search.
 
Volume requirements are low to middle, the room is a bit hard to describe....

The cubic area of the listening space is quite large as we took out a lot of walls. Picture an L-shape of 56qm with areas of 32 + 24. The hifi is along the long wall (8m x 4m) of the 32qm area, almost but purposely not in the middle. Listening positions are off-axis to the left and right, at 4m depth.
The other part (24qm) of the „L“ is the open dining area (6m away) where a lot of listening takes place, and behind that the kitchen, which is separated by a wall but open to both sides. Ceiling is 2,45 and 3,00 in kitchen.

Almost no offensive room nodes, or at least very evenly distributed. Reasonably good damping for a modernized place. Two carpets, lots of curtains, pillows, sideboards and so on.

Forgot to meantion I tried Arcs too briefly. Naaah!
 
Volume requirements are low to middle, the room is a bit hard to describe....

The cubic area of the listening space is quite large as we took out a lot of walls. Picture an L-shape of 56qm with areas of 32 + 24. The hifi is along the long wall (8m x 4m) of the 32qm area, almost but purposely not in the middle. Listening positions are off-axis to the left and right, at 4m depth.
The other part (24qm) of the „L“ is the open dining area (6m away) where a lot of listening takes place, and behind that the kitchen, which is separated by a wall but open to both sides. Ceiling is 2,45 and 3,00 in kitchen.

Almost no offensive room nodes, or at least very evenly distributed. Reasonably good damping for a modernized place. Two carpets, lots of curtains, pillows, sideboards and so on.

Forgot to meantion I tried Arcs too briefly. Naaah!

Can’t see the GB1is working. Even if they could manage the scale, I always feel that they are drawing me into a single listening position. Even quite slight movements away from the sweet spot render to sound that’s pleasing but not as “right”
 
Can’t see the GB1is working.
I can claim an interest in this topic as my PMC TB1s are having a hard time settling into my expectations.
Past 10pm, when lower levels become more congenial, I usually yearn for my tatty old budget Wharfedale 505.2s.
The pmc's are good at handling high levels and remaining sober and composed.
The Wharfedales are the opposite. Their main quality is not falling asleep when the lights go dim.
 
23/28 mainly, presently toying about with 5010/3010 monos as well. Not sure which will stay.
 
If you want 'lively' ProAc most certainly fit the bill- they may even make drum' n bass sound good.:D
 
I have had both PMC FB and Proac D18 in my 5m x 3m room, for my tastes, the Proac destroyed PMC in every way imaginable. The D18 does not sound like the Tablette though, it has a much bigger soundstage, more refined. The bass is less defined, but actually works in its favour, as it does not drill into you the way the Tablette can. It does need some space on the sides to avoid potential boom, but it can change nature according to how good the electronics driving it are, it will improve to a far larger degree than PMC.

If you want a super safe, not too lively, not that interesting, option, then PMC fits the bill. It is the magnolia of speakers, but that is just my opinion.

Having said all that, my cousin has the PMC GB1i in a very near field setup driven by some decent Cyrus amps and a 2.5k digital player, and it sounds awesome at 90db, not sure how his ears can take it!
 
kudos can be superb vfm . as you know you can get brand new kudos X2 in real wood veneer at 50% off [799] definately worth trying

The proac d18 is getting a bit old now , if you had the d20 you will probably hanker after the d30
the dt8 is lovely too if you can get a listen

absolutely loved the spendor A7 at shows when i have heard , seems a very popular speaker . well worth trying if you can
 
The proac d18 is getting a bit old now , if you had the d20 you will probably hanker after the d30
the dt8 is lovely too if you can get a listen

I've read comments in that direction before... (D18->20->30)
Not sure about the DT8, it seems to get rave reviews (what doesn't?) but is has that extra driver.
For some irrational reason I'm looking for a straight 2way I think.
I've always liked 2way monitors, so one with more bass (floorstander) is desired I guess.

Do you have any experience with the new Ribbon Tweeters?
 
I think Neat is good vfm. Strangely overlooked and perennially unfashionable.

I have 2018 SX1s in a small room and I would describe them exactly as you describe your requirements. More than enough bass for me.
 
but not much experience of ribbons . i wasnt overly impressed with the d20r but it was not a brilliant demo

i have heard the d30r in a front room and really enjoyed it with arcam set up

one thing for sure there is MASSIVE love by owners for their proacs !!!
 
Yes the x3 costs over 2k but they are knocking out x2 for silly money. So far quite a few have bought including one of the moderators on the wam who has been positive
 
23/28 mainly, presently toying about with 5010/3010 monos as well. Not sure which will stay.
Wow ! Both kits are more than excellent IMO and would fit with many speakers given their tremendous output.
My favorite of the two would be the 23/28 as it seems to be a bit more musical to me although a bit less detailed or analytical. They would fit with either a soft dome fabric tweeter or a ribbon tweeter.
The 5010/3010 is more hi-fi or at today’s taste for a ton of details and a more forward sound IMO so I would match it with a soft dome fabric tweeter to avoid any listener fatigue.
For something lively, dynamic with impact on percussion, the Proac are the way to go as the Spendor will sound quiet in comparison and the PMC will sound slow. As for the Neat, I would avoid any metal tweeter if there is any as they sound great at first but they sound a bit harsh over time on long listening sessions.
I would be very curious to give a try with the 5010 preamp and the 28 amp as you may get best of both worlds with it and no longer have to worry about what speakers are used.
I have an Exposure 4 mk 2 and I use it with a Classe Audio CP 35 with upgraded power supply and this setup really gives me the details, finesse and perfect tone thanks to the preamp and I also have the slam and deep and very controlled bass. On top of that, I can listen to my music for many hours in a row without any listener fatigue. My speakers have a Morel soft dome fabric tweeter similar to a Dynaudio.
Make sure to do many tests before getting rid of your 28 as this is something very difficult to replace in terms of sound quality as well as quality of construction...............
 
My favorite of the two would be the 23/28 as it seems to be a bit more musical to me although a bit less detailed or analytical.

Spot on! The defining element is the Pre, the 5010 into 28 does not smooth out things very much. For musicality the 23 wins but the details the 5010 offers are just seductive.

Problem is my 23 has a slight hiss/grain you only notice with highly efficient speakers, which my Elan30 are. Hence the idea to change to something new and sub 90dB.

I‘m inclined to keep both rigs and put whichever I don‘t prefer into the office system (ES11) instead of the OA21. Overkill, but why not.

Thanks for your thoughts on PMC and Spendor, they confirm my prejudice!
 
Spot on! The defining element is the Pre, the 5010 into 28 does not smooth out things very much. For musicality the 23 wins but the details the 5010 offers are just seductive.

Problem is my 23 has a slight hiss/grain you only notice with highly efficient speakers, which my Elan30 are. Hence the idea to change to something new and sub 90dB.

I‘m inclined to keep both rigs and put whichever I don‘t prefer into the office system (ES11) instead of the OA21. Overkill, but why not.

Thanks for your thoughts on PMC and Spendor, they confirm my prejudice!

Which prejudice do you mean with the Spendor or PMC?
 
I have read the many repliess and it reminded my demo's of listening to all of the above speakers over a long weekend at many dealers.
For what is worth my findings were the same as many here:
Spendor: Polite and safe sound.
Neat: I was waiting to be blown away by the soundstage of the upward firing tweeters, Did not feel the love.
PMC: Good sound but the transmission line bass was overpowering.
Proac D18 / 28 My favourite speaker by a considerable margin of the whole journey , the D18 really put a smile on my face and I had listened to many very expensive alternatives.
I did compare it to the D28 at the time but I really preferred the 18's.
After coming back home I did a final demo of the larger speaker with the ribbon tweeter, it did not blow me away as I hoped it would so I bought the D18'S with no regrets.
I never heard the 20's so I can't comment but I think you know what the answer is already!!
 
but not much experience of ribbons . i wasnt overly impressed with the d20r but it was not a brilliant demo
i have heard the d30r in a front room and really enjoyed it with arcam set up
one thing for sure there is MASSIVE love by owners for their proacs !!!

Glad you clarified your earlier comment about not being impressed by the D20R. I have had mine for over 4 years now & am very pleased. They are significantly better than the D18 which I had owned previously for 5 years, with more bass & the ribbon tweeter has a very delicate sound. They took a long while to reach their best but I have a number of systems, so they do not get full-time use. The hardware driving the D20s is all Arcam with P1 power amps, so presumably similar to your D30 demo.

I tried my friend's PMCs when he was on holiday, & I enjoyed listening to them, but when I put my Spendor A5Rs back on I preferred them by a mile or two. I also have some PMC Tablette Anniversary (replacing some old Castles I accidently blew). I find the Tablettes excellent, made even better by using with my (quite old) Castle sub-woofer, which I understand was designed for music rather than film.

Taste in speakers is a very personal thing so the best approache is to try to get a decent demo for a period of time. I was lucky that my dealer let me take kit home for a proper listen over a period of time, but regretably the shop was closed a year ago. However I am now passed by buying days & just enjoy listen to my music.
 


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