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Power Cables. Are they overhyped? Part II: Electric Boogaloo

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In your opinion of course.

The penny may drop at some point, I won't hold my breath in the meantime.

I would imagine, if you tested the Rega amp I use, amongst others, you would hear no such improvement
Are we there yet?

PS/ did the cable arrive :D

Thats not an opinion, thats a plain simple fact that cannot be interpreted any other way. Amps that are negatively affected by normal variations in mains quality are defficient in their psu and psrr.

The cable has arrived.
 
I wasn't saying that the Muse model 200 sounded better with certain mains cables, it sounded better with a big ass dc filter or mains regeneration. No amount of passive cable swapping made on iota of difference.

I realise others may have made claims to the contrary. I was just highlighting that a shit amp cannot, ime, be fixed with fancy cables with no sound engineering basis.

I think my post you quoted was responding to rag, and yes I agree with you.
 
There are situations where the mains is so erratic and noisy they can be of use. Where I have lived it has never been necessary and I think it is uncommon for it to be necessary.

I dont know the quality of whatnexts main supply, but a well designed regen will eliminate problems that 1m of funky mains cable wont.
I am please to say that having gone through an "open minded" phase, exploring the claims of subjectivists (that is folks who make a thing about saying they are subjectivist), I discover I have the most amazing mains in HiFi forumdom. I also am subjective in this discovery.

Apart from a late night difference in sound quality which may be due to ambient external noise levels it is free from variations in level or sound quality. I have no fear or dread of SMS PSUs, either mine or neighbours, nor 4G masts all subjects many speak of as having to fight their effects to achieve contentment.

What I would warn is if you go for one of these super tight fitting IEC plugs you can harm the socket not designed for such abuse and end up replacing the socket.

I guess once you get in your mind that mains can make a difference (which it can) you may if of a OCD disposition wear yourself out exploring things mains and maybe endlessly preaching about it on forums. Those of a trusting disposition may have to find out the hard/costly way

Mains cables are hugely overhyped
 
I have built amps, but it couldn't be less relevant.

This is so straw man it beggars belief.

The point in question was some claim that the amplifiers they use, or have used, are sensitive to subtle changes in mains conditions. Using certain mains leads allegedly improved this.

This unequivocally means the amps have a design deficiency. This is simple logic as mains conditions vary from installation to installation and throughout the day. It has to be a design consideration therefore that they should cope with these normal operating conditions.

If they do not, they have a design deficiency. You appear to see this sort of sensitivity as some kind of virtue. It is not.

This statement, and the analysis behind it, is completely inadequate. Your statement is only correct if the amplifier in question is completely incapable of performing its function outside a very narrow set of mains parameters. Nobody is suggesting that this is the case. All designs by their very nature are an exercise in trading off between a variety of "ideal" parameters to achieve a given purpose. Most never reach the ideal in even a single aspect. Such parameters include things like price, cost, performance, reliability, longevity, aesthetics, ease of manufacture, ease of service, customer options etc. Performance itself will have many different facets depending on the type of product. The case you outline merely indicates a different balance of trade offs within the design parameters chosen.
 
There are situations where the mains is so erratic and noisy they can be of use. Where I have lived it has never been necessary and I think it is uncommon for it to be necessary.

I dont know the quality of whatnexts main supply, but a well designed regen will eliminate problems that 1m of funky mains cable wont.
Would there not be a design fault if this mild fluctuation affected the amps ability to function correctly, something you have made perfectly clear on many occasions here, so what is the point of a mains regenerator, especially considering the outlay, does a mains regenerator improve the mains supply, if so, why do this if the amp will be immune to fluctuations & most importantly will have zero affect on the sound quality, you state that any piece of equipment susceptible to mains input is faulty.

Post 921 for clarity.
Give an example of an erratic mains supply, where, when & for how long this occurs that spending the types of funds on a regenerator will be a worthwhile outlay, especially if sound quality will be unaffected as you also state regarding improving mains supply.
 
This statement, and the analysis behind it, is completely inadequate. Your statement is only correct if the amplifier in question is completely incapable of performing its function outside a very narrow set of mains parameters. Nobody is suggesting that this is the case. All designs by their very nature are an exercise in trading off between a variety of "ideal" parameters to achieve a given purpose. Most never reach the ideal in even a single aspect. Such parameters include things like price, cost, performance, reliability, longevity, aesthetics, ease of manufacture, ease of service, customer options etc. Performance itself will have many different facets depending on the type of product. The case you outline merely indicates a different balance of trade offs within the design parameters chosen.

Nonsense!

Its a basic design function of any amp to not be noticeably affected by normal variations in mains supply.

Most of the funky mains cables that I have seen are not costly to manufacture so if they really solved the problem why would manufacturers not supply them?

Its quite fascinating the audiophile psyche. So, you find out that the amp is affected by subtle mains differences, but instead of going "..mmm...this amp is less than an optimal design..." you go "....bugger... better go and spend 500 quid on a mains cable to try and sort it out.."

It truly is bizarre.
 
Would there not be a design fault if this mild fluctuation affected the amps ability to function correctly, something you have made perfectly clear on many occasions here, so what is the point of a mains regenerator, especially considering the outlay, does a mains regenerator improve the mains supply, if so, why do this if the amp will be immune to fluctuations & most importantly will have zero affect on the sound quality, you state that any piece of equipment susceptible to mains input is faulty.

Post 921 for clarity.
Give an example of an erratic mains supply, where, when & for how long this occurs that spending the types of funds on a regenerator will be a worthwhile outlay.

You didn't read my post thoroughly did you? Try again.
 
This is the point though, the amps you refer to as "improved" by certain mains cables are hindered by the fact that they are sensitive (in a negative way) to subtle mains condition variations.

In other words, the amps' he refers to, which may or may not be hindered by the fact they are sensitive to subtle mains condition variations, can be improved by the use of a better mains cable.

This is your point?

Better mains cable can make a difference?

Mr ED
 
In other words, the amps' he refers to, which may or may not be hindered by the fact they are sensitive to subtle mains condition variations, can be improved by the use of a better mains cable.

This is your point?

Better mains cable can make a difference?

Mr ED

No its not my point, I'm not the one claiming that amps are miraculously improved by funky mains cables.

Its simply pointing out to those that believe they are, that their amps therefore must have a design deficiency.
 
No its not my point, I'm not the one claiming that amps are miraculously improved by funky mains cables.

Its simply pointing out to those that believe they are, that their amps therefore must have a design deficiency.

Hang on, all through your posts you are saying that if the amp is improved by a different cable it must have a "design deficiency" by that statement you are saying mains cable can make a difference on these amps'.

Mr ED
 
Hang on, all through your posts you are saying that if the amp is improved by a different cable it must have a "design deficiency" by that statement you are saying mains cable can make a difference on these amps'.

Mr ED
He doesn't make as a true statement for everyone but those who believe they hear a difference once they attach a different mains cable. Hare Krishna
 
I have built amps, but it couldn't be less relevant.

This is so straw man it beggars belief.

The point in question was some claim that the amplifiers they use, or have used, are sensitive to subtle changes in mains conditions. Using certain mains leads allegedly improved this.

This unequivocally means the amps have a design deficiency. This is simple logic as mains conditions vary from installation to installation and throughout the day. It has to be a design consideration therefore that they should cope with these normal operating conditions

If they do not, they have a design deficiency. You appear to see this sort of sensitivity as some kind of virtue. It is not.


Hey Ho, in the sentence marked in bold BE718 accepts that the cable improved the amp because of its "design deficiency"

Mr ED
 
He doesn't make as a true statement for everyone but those who believe they hear a difference once they attach a different mains cable. Hare Krishna

Yes. Its a logical and inevitable follow on conclusion for those that believe their amp is affected.
 
No its not my point, I'm not the one claiming that amps are miraculously improved by funky mains cables.
Its simply pointing out to those that believe they are, that their amps therefore must have a design deficiency

There you go again, accepting that he who has an amp with a "design deficiency" may or may not improve it with a better cable.

Mr ED
 
Hey Ho, in the sentence marked in bold BE718 accepts that the cable improved the amp because of its "design deficiency"

Mr ED

No. Highlighting out of context is not a credible argument. Note the use of "claim" and "allegedly".

Its not a statement confirming I think they are affected. Hope this clarifies my position for you.
 
There you go again, accepting that he who has an amp with a "design deficiency" may or may not improve it with a better cable.

Mr ED

Whatsnext clearly understood the point. Why are you having difficulty? Or are you just upset that its such a blindingly obvious conclusion that the amps you cherish aren't as good a design as you think they are *if* you insist that they are improved by funky mains cables?
 
No. Highlighting out of context is not a credible argument. Note the use of "claim" and "allegedly".

Its not a statement confirming I think they are affected. Hope this clarifies my position for you.

You state, if one thinks they hear a difference with a change of mains cable then the amp is design deficient, unequivocally.
It follows that you accept that mains cable may or may not make a difference to design deficient amps, otherwise why keep repeating it?

Mr ED
 
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