Potholes everywhere

[jagdesign]

Roads around here (Worthing) have taken a hammering too. Have complained to the council twice but their response is ultimately a waste of my time.

I was thinking it’d be good to map all of them, luckily someone’s already on it https://www.fillthathole.org.uk/

 

[gintonic]

whereabouts in Herts? East Herts possibly the worst it’s ever been.

irrelevant - Herts Highways are responsible for the main roads (A1000 A414 A1057 A6129 etc) and they appear to be being repaired. Minor roads are the responsibility of the Borough Council are taking much longer to be repaired

 

[Cereal Killer]

You can claim for the damage caused from you local council if the pothole was deeper than the allowed limit.
Hit a pothole in my Mini Cooper S a few years ago, lost 1 tire and wheel, and the suspension strut, successfully claimed, approx. 90% was returned by Westminster Council.

 

[mandryka]

Move to France - they’re a rarity here.

Paris : le fléau des nids de poule - YouTube

Les nids-de-poule rendent les rues de Paris impraticables... Notre sélection de l’actu des régions (francelive.fr)


Région | Nids-de-poule à Marseille, le ras-le-bol | La Provence


Ce ne sont plus des nids-de-poule mais des nids d’autruche! - La Voix du Nord

 

[PsB]

3 times the land mass for the same population helps. A lot.

OTOH, it means 3 x more road to maintain for a given budget (length of road/km2 is actually higher in France).
(And it's more like twice the land mass, BTW)

 

[SteveS1]

Paris : le fléau des nids de poule - YouTube

Les nids-de-poule rendent les rues de Paris impraticables... Notre sélection de l’actu des régions (francelive.fr)


Région | Nids-de-poule à Marseille, le ras-le-bol | La Provence


Ce ne sont plus des nids-de-poule mais des nids d’autruche! - La Voix du Nord

Not remotely comparable. I see more road surface damage on the M25/M20 before hitting the crossing than I see from Calais to La Rochelle. Yes we are talking about the major roads. Around and about in rural France there are potholes, but nothing like as many as here. That's before you factor in the comfort factor and deafening level of road roar so beloved of the UK Highways Agency.

The roads in France have been better for many years but the difference is widening.

 

[Ponty]

OTOH, it means 3 x more road to maintain for a given budget (length of road/km2 is actually higher in France).
(And it's more like twice the land mass, BTW)

Yep, if we’re looking it up, it’s 2.3X. It means the roads will take less of a hammering because they’ll have less use. Appreciate the cities will be broadly similar.

 

[mandryka]

Not remotely comparable. I see more road surface damage on the M25/M20 before hitting the crossing than I see from Calais to La Rochelle. Yes we are talking about the major roads. Around and about in rural France there are potholes, but nothing like as many as here. That's before you factor in the comfort factor and deafening level of road roar so beloved of the UK Highways Agency.

The roads in France have been better for many years but the difference is widening.

You're probably right. There was something I saw on French TV but I can't find it now -- either Paris or Marseille or Lyon -- pot hole which was only superficially repaired by the council, they filled it in with tar. Anyway, the problem was with the foundations of the road, a gas pipe ran underneath, it collapsed, it caused an explosion which brought down a house!

 

[PsB]

Yep, if we’re looking it up, it’s 2.3X. It means the roads will take less of a hammering because they’ll have less use. Appreciate the cities will be broadly similar.

I get that, but you have to build and maintain 3x the number of road miles, all things (budget, population etc.) being equal, so each km gets less attention.
All roads in GB: 394,400 km. Motorways: 3,736 km.
All roads in France: 1,053,000 km. Motorways: 9,112 or 12,379 km, depending on definition.
To take an extreme example, wealthy Norway or slightly less wealthy Finland (pop. 5 million each) struggle to maintain their vast road networks. The low population density really doesn't help (neither does the climate, of course).

 

[kensalriser]

The London boroughs of Croydon, Kingston, Sutton and Merton have been really bad for some years.

Probably the rest of London as well but I haven`t driven there recently.

Lost a couple of almost new tyres in KIngston, giant hole filled with water at night....

Croydon just went bust so don't expect that to improve any time soon.

 

[eternumviti]

I've been diverted twice this week on the way home at 9ish by the council carrying out pothole repairs. Ongar/Brentwood.

 

[Barrymagrec]

Croydon just went bust so don't expect that to improve any time soon.

I lived in Croydon until 39 years ago, the roads were poor then and got worse. Luckily (from a road point of view) I rarely need to go there now, particularly since Barclays have closed most of their branches in the area.

Not that the other boroughs are much better.

 

[MarkW]

Potholes are cheaper to install and maintain than other traffic calming measures. Paying irate motorists for damaged rims, tyres and such is probably cheaper than properly fixing the road surface. And as our country races towards its desired status as a third world neo fascist hell-hole, shit roads are part of the look book.

 

[Dogberry]

Potholes are cheaper to install and maintain than other traffic calming measures. Paying irate motorists for damaged rims, tyres and such is probably cheaper than properly fixing the road surface. And as our country races towards its desired status as a third world neo fascist hell-hole, shit roads are part of the look book.

Shit roads shit rivers shit beaches shithole.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

OTOH, it means 3 x more road to maintain for a given budget (length of road/km2 is actually higher in France).
(And it's more like twice the land mass, BTW)

I wonder how much climate matters. AIUI potholes are often created when rainwater gets under the surface, then freezes. If, in France, rain and frost are less common, and especially rain followed by frost, the pothole creating mechanism might be less common.

 

[SteveS1]

I wonder how much climate matters. AIUI potholes are often created when rainwater gets under the surface, then freezes. If, in France, rain and frost are less common, and especially rain followed by frost, the pothole creating mechanism might be less common.

The weather in most of northern France is broadly similar to here. Central and eastern France gets bloody cold in winter. You could make a case for lots of areas that experience more temperature extremes than England. Being a smaller, higher density population means the UK's use of roads for utilities is a big factor. Roadworks are seldom co-ordinated or completed to standard* and worsen surfaces rapidly. The materials used here are cheaper, the repairs ditto.

I get to travel via Rouen a lot and over the years I've seen many very long stretches of Peage replaced that would have been considered a pretty good surface here. Indeed the A28 south of Rouen to Le Mon has recently seen a lot of re-surfacing, again I was scratching my head to recall what was wrong with it. God knows what they would make of the Leatherhead to Bagshot concrete on the M25.

*local authorities here are well aware of this but the shortage of contractor options and time/cost of litigation means they largely ignore it - it's cheaper to keep quick-fixing (when they bother).

The whole system is very visible sign of a country under-funding it's infrastructure. Addiction to low tax used to be the excuse, it will be interesting to see if that lasts now that wider services are routinely affected and tax rates (for most) are higher than ever. For instance, the two biggest leisure centres close to here are sudddenly closed as the operator for many years has suddenly had enough of trying to run them with constant real terms cuts in funding, having taken a hit for COVID/Energy spikes.

I'm guessing if we are lucky, a new operator without that hit will come in. But they will also find unsustainable levels of funding and a population that will not see their priority as increased fees for health and leisure, so ultimately round we go again. Everything is short-term and to get us over the next crisis. This is what decline looks like.

 

[wacko]

^ 'This is what decline looks like.'
When your political elite decide it is time to blatantly rip off whatever assets are left in a frenzy of short-termism you know you are f1234d.

 

[ian123running]

Someone suggested to me that in France the services tend to run beside, rather than below the road so avoiding the points of weakness created by digging up the road. I have no idea whether this is a factor. Even in mountainous areas with severe winters we manage to almost always have good smooth roads to cycle on.

 

[Vinny]

Quick fixes v. long term repairs is down to accountancy practises and budgets. Apart from major projects - new roads from scratch, basically, repairs come from what industry would call revenue. Nothing but central government have investment budgets. Local councils and the like cannot pay twice as mcuh today for a repair that would last 5 times as long, their budgets do not allow it.

As for cause of damage - it is mostly down to water around here - we haven't had much snow or frost - as a wheel hits water, it "pumps" it out of the crack that it is in, and that opens the crack further.

I live on an unmade single-track lane and you can see the effect - the holes/puddles get bigger and deeper with a ring of what was filling it, around the edges. Telling people to drive at 5mph..................... they aren't bright enough to understand. They just keep filling the holes with sand!!!!!

 

[RoA]

Sadly, the state of the roads seem to broadly reflect the country (UK) as a whole. Partially broken.

We were planning to move to Barcelona at the end of last year but had to postpone this due to Visa (and taxation) issues for my partner. She works for a large international corporation and requested the move.- Things weren't quite as straight forward as everyone thought, including the German arm under which she works. Thanks Brexit. As her own business is now picking up we are hoping to finally move this year and I have to say, as much as I am fond of Bournemouth and the surrounding natural areas which we have enjoyed for the last 30 years (I moved from Switzerland), it is definitively time to say goodbye to the UK. At least as a country to permanently live in and one to eventually see me out.

We'll always come back for short stays and to see (her) family but everything has changed beyond recognition since I'moved here half a life time ago. Not all for the better.