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Post-Trump: III (decline, further tantrums, legal proceedings, book deals etc)

Tony L said:
Fascinating interview with political scientist Barbra Walter on Sky just now. She was highlighting that America has been technically downgraded from ‘democracy’ to ‘anocracy’ and highlighting a likely trajectory towards civil war as the white Republican base refuse to accept any democratic erosion of their historic power and entitlement.

Found her on Twitter. I’ll have a read around later as she seemed to articulate very well what appears to be happening as America goes off the rails and a lot seems relevant to the UK too. I prefer the term ‘kleptocracy’ myself, but maybe both apply. Neither country is a functioning democracy in any real sense. That much I’m certain of here as my vote never gets me representation!
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Ultimately the GOP, and right wing media do the bidding of their wealthy and/or corporate paymasters. Their behavior was understandable when it was just persuading the gullible to vote for a poorer, shorter life and to enable even more tax cuts. It's less understandable if they drive the country off a cliff - one would think a civil war would have a negative effect on most rich Americans !?
 
More wingnuttery from USA https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jan/05/america-biden-election-2020-poll-victory

Mark my words, we need to have a "plan B" for if America becomes virtually the 4th reich in the not too distant future!

When I mentioned this the other day (not for the first time, but on this occasion because a professor of politics was warning of the same thing in an opinion piece in the grauniad!) one fishie pretty much called me a nutter for suggesting it... I think it is an all too real threat. A big worry is that with the twats in power over here they would go along with it and align us with the fascist "axis powers" this time.

We have stupidly allowed ourselves to become totally reliant on them for our defence and even have USA military bases in the UK....

Horrifically, to me anyway, I can well imagine that if concentration camps etc are built and blacks, gay people, "Pinkos" etc thrown in them.... maybe they annex Canada and Mexico etc... our almost equally odious gov would consider it expedient, "real politik" to continue being their ally, to keep doing business with them, to invite fuhrer drumpf (or his much worse successor) over for another state visit etc etc:eek::eek:
 
Chris Hayes had Ruth Ben-Ghiat on last night, and she argued that Hungary was the ideal that the right wing of the GOP was striving for. Namely, a country where elections where held, but fixed so only 1 party had a chance to win, and one where the government wasn't openly corrupt, but coerced successful business to contribute heavily to the ruling party, much like how the Mob works.
 
Arkless Electronics said:
More wingnuttery from USA https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jan/05/america-biden-election-2020-poll-victory

Mark my words, we need to have a "plan B" for if America becomes virtually the 4th reich in the not too distant future!

When I mentioned this the other day (not for the first time, but on this occasion because a professor of politics was warning of the same thing in an opinion piece in the grauniad!) one fishie pretty much called me a nutter for suggesting it... I think it is an all too real threat. A big worry is that with the twats in power over here they would go along with it and align us with the fascist "axis powers" this time.

We have stupidly allowed ourselves to become totally reliant on them for our defence and even have USA military bases in the UK....

Horrifically, to me anyway, I can well imagine that if concentration camps etc are built and blacks, gay people, "Pinkos" etc thrown in them.... maybe they annex Canada and Mexico etc... our almost equally odious gov would consider it expedient, "real politik" to continue being their ally, to keep doing business with them, to invite fuhrer drumpf (or his much worse successor) over for another state visit etc etc:eek::eek:
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gordon said:
Chris Hayes had Ruth Ben-Ghiat on last night, and she argued that Hungary was the ideal that the right wing of the GOP was striving for. Namely, a country where elections where held, but fixed so only 1 party had a chance to win, and one where the government wasn't openly corrupt, but coerced successful business to contribute heavily to the ruling party, much like how the Mob works.
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These horror stories are indeed what many, maybe most on the right are aiming for. And the American left are too hapless to do anything about it, despite being in the (slim) majority.

I love these sorts of demographic maps:

#1 - the red area and orange areas have equal populations

BDn61mm.jpg


#2 - The red area has more population than the grey area

hwkEpAG.jpg


My point is that whatever political reckoning is coming for America, it can't be a conventional "civil war" because there is no territory to fight over. It's more rural vs urban. A secession or division isn't really possible.

Instead, it'll be a fight for subjugation of the whole of the country.
 
And tomorrow is the one year anniversary of our beer hall putsch. I wonder if any activities are scheduled?
 
gordon said:
Chris Hayes had Ruth Ben-Ghiat on last night, and she argued that Hungary was the ideal that the right wing of the GOP was striving for. Namely, a country where elections where held, but fixed so only 1 party had a chance to win, and one where the government wasn't openly corrupt, but coerced successful business to contribute heavily to the ruling party, much like how the Mob works.
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A bit like the Tories in the Uk then?
 
After Garland’s speech yesterday, I have more hope of those responsible for Jan 6th being held accountable.
 
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I have little hope for America and any and all suggestions I could make involve extreme action....

As I say above I do worry to what extent our own gov will back whatever junta USA ends up with! It could well get so basically "if you're not against America you're with them"
 
Yank said:
These horror stories are indeed what many, maybe most on the right are aiming for. And the American left are too hapless to do anything about it, despite being in the (slim) majority.

I love these sorts of demographic maps:

#1 - the red area and orange areas have equal populations



#2 - The red area has more population than the grey area


My point is that whatever political reckoning is coming for America, it can't be a conventional "civil war" because there is no territory to fight over. It's more rural vs urban. A secession or division isn't really possible.

Instead, it'll be a fight for subjugation of the whole of the country.
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The stat I recall, correctly, I hope, is that there are 50 senators that represent 22% of the country.
 
sean99 said:
Ending the filibuster and passing the HR1 voting rights act would be a good start - not extreme in the least.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/For_the_People_Act

The ball is firmly in the court of Joe Manchin (for better or worse).
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For a start drumpf must be jailed! It is patently obvious that he has committed enough crimes to put him away for life! FFS your country locks up black people on welfare for 40 years for stealing a bottle of whisky but drumpf attempted a coup, colluded with foreign powers, attempted to interfere with free and fair election proceedings (to name just the most obvious crimes) and walks free??

Then things like proud boys, KKK and all such organisations must be declared illegal terrorist organisations and all their members jailed.... In any normal country a group of nutters in combat gear armed with assault rifles threatening people in a town centre would be instantly surrounded by armed police and then locked up for a long time for committing several VERY serious crimes!!

Then you need to repeal the 2nd amendment and forceably take back all the guns. Yes 100's of thousands will have to be killed to do this but they are the ones most likely to be fascists so no great loss really.

What is really extreme is that the above is the status quo in the first place!! I was horrified when I realised about 5 years ago that the KKK were not just some evil reminder from way back in history but still existed... LEGALLY!!

In decent countries being seen to be racially prejudiced is in itself a crime! Inciting hatred in others is an even worse crime! Demonstrating against blacks worse still! Threatening them with violence worse still.
If anyone dressed in KKK garb and walked up the street with placards showing racial hatred in most countries they would be jailed for 5 years or more! Doing it with guns would mean maybe 15 years in jail.
 
Arkless Electronics said:
For a start drumpf must be jailed! It is patently obvious that he has committed enough crimes to put him away for life! FFS your country locks up black people on welfare for 40 years for stealing a bottle of whisky but drumpf attempted a coup, colluded with foreign powers, attempted to interfere with free and fair election proceedings (to name just the most obvious crimes) and walks free??

Then things like proud boys, KKK and all such organisations must be declared illegal terrorist organisations and all their members jailed.... In any normal country a group of nutters in combat gear armed with assault rifles threatening people in a town centre would be instantly surrounded by armed police and then locked up for a long time for committing several VERY serious crimes!!

Then you need to repeal the 2nd amendment and forceably take back all the guns. Yes 100's of thousands will have to be killed to do this but they are the ones most likely to be fascists so no great loss really.

What is really extreme is that the above is the status quo in the first place!! I was horrified when I realised about 5 years ago that the KKK were not just some evil reminder from way back in history but still existed... LEGALLY!!

In decent countries being seen to be racially prejudiced is in itself a crime! Inciting hatred in others is an even worse crime! Demonstrating against blacks worse still! Threatening them with violence worse still.
If anyone dressed in KKK garb and walked up the street with placards showing racial hatred in most countries they would be jailed for 5 years or more! Doing it with guns would mean maybe 15 years in jail.
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I think you really are asking for a civil war, ol' bean!
 
Arkless Electronics said:
In decent countries being seen to be racially prejudiced is in itself a crime! Inciting hatred in others is an even worse crime! Demonstrating against blacks worse still! Threatening them with violence worse still.
If anyone dressed in KKK garb and walked up the street with placards showing racial hatred in most countries they would be jailed for 5 years or more!
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Not here in the UK. The NF, Britain First, EDL, UKIP etc are all perfectly legal no matter how many trains full of Yaxley Lennon’s thugs turn up in multicultural areas to bring their terrorism to Asian shops and businesses etc. Britain First are now a “legitimate political party” even after inciting the racial hatred and xenophobia that led to the murder of Jo Cox. Farage gets paid substantially for his racism which is apparently a desirable commodity on our TV channels.

PS As an anti-authoritarian I do struggle with forcefully gagging this shit, though I would personally proscribe the EDL and Britain First as they have a proven history of race violence and incitement. They are terrorist groups.
 
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