pfm Health Club

[crimsondonkey]

I’m not against 5:2 but I do have doubts about its sustainability. It’s perfectly valid to kick start weight loss, but perhaps I admit that I might be a bit purist in my thinking that it doesn’t fundamentally teach better eating habits and reduce appetite long term.

End of the day I’m practical and not dogmatic so whatever works.

 

[stevec67]

having two days where I have to watch what I’m eating very carefully, and 5 where I can largely forget about it suits.

This is what makes it sustainable IME. It's sustainable because it's not sustained. You don't have to pass on the birthday cake in the office, you can still have fish and chips now and again, you can still have a pint. On 5 days of the week, anyway. OK, not every day of the 5, but you don't have to be a monk. I've lost weight by "cutting down" for 7 days out of 7, or 6 at least, and it works but it's not easy. For 6 months I did turn down beers, fish and chip suppers, and the like. Now I only have to do that 2 days.

 

[TheDecameron]

This is what makes it sustainable IME. It's sustainable because it's not sustained. You don't have to pass on the birthday cake in the office, you can still have fish and chips now and again, you can still have a pint. On 5 days of the week, anyway. OK, not every day of the 5, but you don't have to be a monk. I've lost weight by "cutting down" for 7 days out of 7, or 6 at least, and it works but it's not easy. For 6 months I did turn down beers, fish and chip suppers, and the like. Now I only have to do that 2 days.

I’ve lost 5kg over six weeks doing the 5:2. Started after a week in France going crazy on the food. I found it also made me pay attention to what I ate on the other five days. Since I retired in May I’ve ditched the ready meals with much more cooking from scratch, so I control the content.

 

[TheDecameron]

As a matter of interest, and a bit of an eye opener, I did some calculations earlier. It started when my daughter commented that I didn’t seem to eat an unusually large amount of food (that is, over the last few years, as my weight has just gone crazy).

The calculator was fired up, and a basic fact looked up; 1lb of body weight is gained from “over-consuming” 3500kcal.

Over five years, how many kcals does one then need to have over eaten per day to gain, say, 3 stone?

80.

That’s three quarters of a small packet of crisps per day.

Ian, good thread and some wise contributions.

 

[demotivated]

Whaleblue, watch this:

 

[stevec67]

I found it also made me pay attention to what I ate on the other five days.

I think that it does, and this has to be a good thing.

Since I retired in May I’ve ditched the ready meals with much more cooking from scratch, so I control the content.

So is this. I manufacture food for a living as you probably know, and I think that cooking from real ingredients makes you appreciate what you are eating. Even if prepared foods are identical, and contrary to popular opinion the adoption of a "clean label" recipe policy means that they basically are, I don't think that you make the same connection. The psychology of food is complex and the modern world is the first that can just magic up food on a whim. Everyone previously has had to prepare it.[/Quote]

 

[Big Tabs]

Part of my food intake problem is related to cooking.

I have 3 grown up kids.
I was a single parent for many years, so I was used to cooking (from scratch) for 3 very hungry, growing children.
Even though they have all left home (over 7 years ago) I still tend to cook for bigger portions/I make too much food.

I try, but 'seconds' / 'Captain of the Clean Plate Club' and 'being tidy,' are well worn phrases in this house.

(translate as 'I eat the lot.')

 

[crimsondonkey]

This is what makes it sustainable IME. It's sustainable because it's not sustained. You don't have to pass on the birthday cake in the office, you can still have fish and chips now and again, you can still have a pint. On 5 days of the week, anyway. OK, not every day of the 5, but you don't have to be a monk. I've lost weight by "cutting down" for 7 days out of 7, or 6 at least, and it works but it's not easy. For 6 months I did turn down beers, fish and chip suppers, and the like. Now I only have to do that 2 days.

Its what works for the individual. Some could easily do this for 20 years, others maybe not.

Also I engage in some kind of exercise most days - weights, running, cycling, swimming (out of enjoyment!) so fasting isn't ideal. My off day I tend to reduce calories and carbs to suit anyway, but its not a fast by any means.

 

[stevec67]

Its what works for the individual.

Amen to that. Like I said upthread, it's about the 6" of meat between your ears, not the 30-odd inches of meat around your middle.

Also I engage in some kind of exercise most days - weights, running, cycling, swimming (out of enjoyment!) so fasting isn't ideal.

I just exercise anyway.

I'm on a fast day today, just tucking into my 2 eggs and some tomatoes. Short run tonight, steady pace. It doesn't seem to affect my energy levels, but I'm not Mo Farrer. That's what's in the bag, so that's what I'm having. If I hear any dissent it's back into the hair shirt, a lie-down in the canal and a flagellate. Got to keep the moaning minnies in their place. Can't beat a bit of a fladge.

 

[Greg]

Its what works for the individual. Some could easily do this for 20 years, others maybe not.

Also I engage in some kind of exercise most days - weights, running, cycling, swimming (out of enjoyment!) so fasting isn't ideal. My off day I tend to reduce calories and carbs to suit anyway, but its not a fast by any means.

You could try daily 16:8, which seems to work well for people who want to try IF and also exercise regularly.

"Longer daily fasting times improve health and longevity in mice
Benefits seen regardless of calorie intake, diet composition in new study"
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/09/180906123305.htm

 

[crimsondonkey]

At the moment I do some IF, and don't eat till about 1pm on some days, probably 3-4 out of 7. On these I tend to have a long walk with the dogs in the morning (5-8 miles) but no actual impact exercise at all. I'll then fuel up to do whatever exercise on the day and then a meal after.

The key I find if trying to run/ swim/ lift weights is that if I try this in a fasted state then I risk sickness and nausea, and if its intense exercise then my body will just kick out cortisol and start cannibalising my muscles as an energy source, so its counter productive. Eating carbs in advance will lift insulin levels and as a result stuff glycogen into muscles for the oncoming effort.

That works for me - I can increase lean muscle mass, lower body fat levels and get fitter at the same time.

There's a lot of 'it depends' in all this - it depends on your goals, your starting point, your preferred approach etc etc.

 

[stevec67]

Interesting. While I was there I saw this:

New research shows why calorie restriction made mice live longer and healthier

You don't live longer if you eat less. It just feels that way.

 

[Greg]

At the moment I do some IF, and don't eat till about 1pm on some days, probably 3-4 out of 7. On these I tend to have a long walk with the dogs in the morning (5-8 miles) but no actual impact exercise at all. I'll then fuel up to do whatever exercise on the day and then a meal after.

The key I find if trying to run/ swim/ lift weights is that if I try this in a fasted state then I risk sickness and nausea, and if its intense exercise then my body will just kick out cortisol and start cannibalising my muscles as an energy source, so its counter productive. Eating carbs in advance will lift insulin levels and as a result stuff glycogen into muscles for the oncoming effort.

That works for me - I can increase lean muscle mass, lower body fat levels and get fitter at the same time.

There's a lot of 'it depends' in all this - it depends on your goals, your starting point, your preferred approach etc etc.

I generally find the same, though I know quite a few people who have adjusted to "training on empty".

As a side-note regards attenuating cortisol post intense exercise: phosphatidylserine is fantastic.. and an interesting nootropic (in my experience )

 

[crimsondonkey]

I generally find the same, though I know quite a few people who have adjusted to "training on empty".

As a side-note regards attenuating cortisol post intense exercise: phosphatidylserine is fantastic.. and an interesting nootropic (in my experience )

I've not tried that, I'd be interested in your experience.

 

[Big Tabs]

13 st. 10.2 lb.

An increase of 2lb since aboot June, BUT under 14 st. which is a silver lining for me.

I may suggest to Mein Schatz that we cook separately for ? 2 days a week, that way I can eat at different times.
I am quite happy to eat my main meal at 12:00 - 13:00 hrs. but the missus regards 'supper,' as her main meal time - anything from 18:00 hrs to 20:00hrs + This is no good for me, also eating my main meal late in the evening contributes to my heartburn/reflux problem. I already take long-term omeprazole/medication for that, late night eating exacerbates it.
As stated earlier, the weight loss required is a complete life style change, not a 6 month diet, then back to 'bad habits.'

 

[stevec67]

Bagged off one of my 2 on Monday, went for a run, all good. Eating earlier in the evening helped, I had my evening "meal" of sardines and tomatoes, 200 cals, about 6pm in the office, then knocked off, got changed, ran 7-8, shower, lazed about, early night.

I am finding it easier if I eat the evening "meal" earlier. Mondays are quite a tough day as I am up at 5 and on the road. I have nevertheless found that working away makes it easier with the discipline, as I am on my own and I do as I like. I've always found it easier, paradoxically, when I'm away in the hotels etc, it makes portion control easy. In the past when i cut back on food I just ordered a tasty starter and that was my meal. The fact that you are eating smoked salmon, or duck, or whatever, compensates for the small quantity.

 

[Mullardman]

This is no good for me, also eating my main meal late in the evening contributes to my heartburn/reflux problem. I already take long-term omeprazole/medication for that, late night eating exacerbates it.
As stated earlier, the weight loss required is a complete life style change, not a 6 month diet, then back to 'bad habits.'

I was on Omeprazole, then Pantoprazole and finally Esomeprazole for donkey's years. Long term use isn't great for long term health .( Bad for Kidneys I think) My Doc advised me to 'play' them according to how my guts are reacting. I ended up stopping them, being careful with food/drink and dealing with the occasional issue by taking a good dollop of Gaviscon last thing, and after meals. I also broke my long term and totally pointless habit of taking a mug of instant coffee to bed with me and replaced it with a glass of water. Result is that I'm now pretty much OK without the PPIs and only occasionally resort to taking one or two pills if really necessary. There are a number of online sites suggesting ways of getting off Pantoprazole and other PPIs.

Take your pick!


https://duckduckgo.com/?q=How+to+stop+taking+Proton+Pump+Inhibitors&t=ffnt&ia=web

Meanwhile.. in other news.. If your weight loss endeavours are effective, this, in itself should help with reflux.

Good luck.

Mull

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

Still the same weight as last week, but I regard that as a win because I had 3 days of work travel, hotel food and working lunches, plus my wedding anniversary meal out, so not actually putting any weight back on is a bonus. Hoping to see another pound or two off after the weekend as I’m back on 5:2 and trying not to break fast before lunch while also being pretty careful with carbs.

 

[crimsondonkey]

being pretty careful with carbs.

Typically I find that means avoiding 'white carbs' like rice, pasta, potatoes, or replacing them with better alternatives. Also timing carbs around effort/ activity - in other words, not having a plate full of mash before going to bed (unless you're planning to be err, active in bed!)

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

Typically I find that means avoiding 'white carbs' like rice, pasta, potatoes, or replacing them with better alternatives. Also timing carbs around effort/ activity - in other words, not having a plate full of mash before going to bed (unless you're planning to be err, active in bed!)

Yes, white carbs are out, mostly, and brown and beige carbs sparingly consumed, mostly as fruit but a small amount or wholemeal or sourdough bread at weekends.