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Pairing Heco Direkt with Amplifiers

D

*DavidF*

Member
Hi Folks,

The thread on these speakers that I could find was 2017, so thought best to start a new one.

I just bought a pair of these speakers, the two driver ones. Has left me scratching my head as they sound like the best thing I have heard in one of my systems and awful in the other one (where I had planned to use them).

My main system is a cord qutest -> chord prime (pre) -> shanling SP-80 monoblocks (2x EL34 valves 50W each push-pull). This is where they were *meant* to go, replacing my trusty B&W 705 speakers. I love the 705s and they have an almost "liquid", natural sheen quality to the treble and vocals in this set up, but I was hoping to improve on the lower end. Namely to get it as musical as the mid - high and a bit less "thumpy" / non-tonal in the bass. I don't need bass to be especially "huge". The Direkts completely disappointed sounding veiled and missing air, this being way more than positioning (that I played with). Room acoustics are pretty good: big thick rug in front, drapes to the sides, wall paintings etc: so not "treated" but pretty OK.

Moved them to my system two which is Meridian Direktor DAC -> Meridian Prime Headphone and Pre Amp with the PSU upgrade -> pair of 50W class B solid state Musical Fidelity XA-50s -> speakers. Smaller (bed)room, ok acoustically. Here the speakers just completely blow me away. It's like the best of headphones and hi-fi combined. Nothing is missing. Handles gentle through to thunderous, and at all volume levels such that cranking is not required to get sound quality. Huge bass but NOT thump thumpy and very musical / tonal. Wonderful pure treble that easily equals the B&W 705 nautilus that I have used in this system also. It rather makes my little transistor power amps sound near tube-like (as in the good aspects: so musical not warm). I'll stop raving now, before people think I am an agent for the manufacturer.

Luckily I bought these for under half the retail full price. I had heard them in a large audio store briefly where the qualities I only notice more of were apparent in spades. This was a less than ideal listening environment (not a pre-booked demo) on some Marantz gear (integrated amp plus a CD player).

I cannot compare the Direkt to other highly sensitive (db) speakers. I know that in my limited experience I have found the few horns that I have listened to rather artificial and thought these would fatigue me.

Wondering what other gear members who have these Direkt speakers have partnered them with, and if they have also had the same great to awful experiences? Any thought on why they sound so average with my valve amps and great with the transistor ones?

Maybe for my main rig I need to wait for some B&W 704s with the bass unit to come in sale in walnut that I like? I'm wondering if driving these will be pretty much the same as the 705s, as I am unlikely to be able to demo old speakers at home. A subwoofer is not an option here. I may be able to demo some new Martin Logan ELS or Monitor Audio Platinum 100s - a little out of my budget but the high gloss ebony stripey finish I think is just gorgeous and will go with my decor.

Love any thinking and experiences that anyone can share

Thanks,

David
(PS Started the same thread on one other forum as the speakers seem a bit rare outside Germany)
 
Jack at BD audio used to sell these and used a trafomatic 300B integrated. I'm sure he said it was one of the best sounds he had achieved with them. Definitive audio have some used trafomatic stuff in their 'stuff section.
 
@pure sound is your man for Direkts

I've heard them with a few amps but my favourite was my old SJS 300b amp with a Kondo M7 preamp.
 
Probably down to different room acoustics in erm... different rooms. This completely dominates over all other factors and I've heard great sounding systems become unlistenable when set up in a different room.
 
Clearly you need to transplant system 2 into the system 1 room and establish how much is down to components and how much down to room. I'll be interested to read what happens when you've tried them with the Meridian/MF stuff in your larger room.
 
bourney said:
Jack at BD audio used to sell these and used a trafomatic 300B integrated. I'm sure he said it was one of the best sounds he had achieved with them. Definitive audio have some used trafomatic stuff in their 'stuff section.
Click to expand...

yes i heard them at jacks place sounding superb with grandinote amps . magnificent bass with a grandinote proemio and silva
 
I often use a set at home with a simple pushpull EL84 amp. 10W class A. And sometimes I wonder what more I'd actually need.

In taking them round various shops it's been apparent that there can be some poor combinations. The Roksan amps sounded particularly gritty & rough. Not really comfortable or pleasant at the relatively low levels the Direkts need to fill a typical room. On the other hand some of the Rega integrateds have sounded perfectly fine. The amps you'd expect to work nicely, do. My Marantz Pm4 works very well. As do most SET amps. They go very nicely with a single 300B driving them. I guess that what you don't want is an amp whose output devices are switching on & off even at low levels as the Direkts won't hide it. Avoid that & they sound fabulous.
 
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Excuse the slow response, busy at work then a short vacation

Firstly, I have to say that I moved the speakers back down stairs and second round they didn't sound so wrong. In fact they sounded good, but not as good as the Shanling e34 valve with B&W Nautilus tweeter. While I like good bass I'm more of a treble / good mid range "head" than a bass "head". As much about how our noggins process music I guess. I can imagine that someone else might prefer the Hecos as less forward - if that's the right word - in that set up. Initially it was chalk and cheese. I'm wondering if three days freezing cold in DHL vans and warehouses meant that the passive cross-overs needed time to thaw out?

With my main rig I managed to insert a very small KEF sub (PSW 2000) that I have. It has an RCA high pass filter that strips out under 90hz (or so) before passing on to my mono blocks. This has allowed me to move the B&W 705s a little further into the room (as I'm not chasing a bit of extra bass), seems to cause the single mid / bass unit not to move so much and makes the mid-range to my ears even better. Means that I am running an extra 1.5m of RCA cables, but I am very happy.

For those interested in the HECOs they sound to my ears awesome in my system b. On the transistor amps (MF XA-50s) I prefer the treble to the B&W 705s, as there they are a bit too bright. I'm totally amazed at the top, mid and bottom end. My room means that the speakers need to be near corners and near the back wall: not a problem at all. I have them very toed in towards the listening area, but the sound is great in the sweet spot but also moving about. Though wide they are very thin, and placement seems to be super flexible. They also sound good in both a large space and a pretty small one. These could very well suit someone with placement issues due to room layout. I think that the downward firing bass ports that are slightly tilted forwards may be the reason for this.

While I am not using the speakers as planned, I am delighted by them. I think my slightly odd for pairing valve amps are just fair synergy rather than excellent.

Hope that this might help anyone researching these speakers.

Appreciate all your helpful comments.
 
With regards to my system B I'll be looking to improve on the MF class A/B 50w XA-50s. I'm looking to do this on a lower budget and second hand. I'm not that familiar with power amps, so reading up. I had thought about Naim's entry level NAP 100, which I think with haggle could be obtained for about €450. The reviews are great and it's relatively modern, but on various fora members seem to think that would be a poor match (reading some threads).

I have seen a couple of pairs of Meridian 205 monoblocks, that are class A. Not much on the internet about how they sound. They would be the same width as my Meridian Prime Pre Amp - a small plus. They are getting pretty ancient (late 90s) and I think I could pick these up for about €450 as well. The repair schema / electronics diagrams seem available. Quad 306s (dumping current) seem very cheap in good state but also getting ancient. Or lastly Linn LK (85 / 100) seem very cheap and have a fan base. Updating the caps and resistors in the MF amps seems impossible as I cannot get hands on the schema / electronics diagrams. They sound pretty OK, but I don't think that they are optimal for the speakers? Wonder if any of you have opinions on this short list? As second hand I'm pretty unlikely to be able to demo on my set up. Also to hear if in your opinion none will make much improvement on the XA-50s plus the Hecos.

Thanks!!

Edit: I can also get a Wadia A-102 pretty much new for €550, but the class D thing freaks me out a bit. Should it?
 
Elephantears said:
Clearly you need to transplant system 2 into the system 1 room and establish how much is down to components and how much down to room. I'll be interested to read what happens when you've tried them with the Meridian/MF stuff in your larger room.
Click to expand...

The Chord Qutest and Chord Prime Pre are non-negotiable LOL, love them too much. Also lots of cables. When I have time I'm going to try them with a Fatman iTube (integrated 25w hybrid) I have kicking around just for fun, as I suspect that will pair superb. Would be a great budget option for someone if it does, as they can be obtained for next to nout and on the flea-bay, plus there are upgrade vales that are claimed to be from Russian nuclear use so very bullet proof (at about €30 a pair). At that price I fell for what was probably complete sales BS and bought them, and yes they sound just fine.
 
I don't think you understood me. As I understood it, you wanted to know why your speakers sounded great in one room/system and bad in the other. You'll never know until you've transplanted the basic elements of the system. I'm not saying you should get rid of your Chord stuff, but you need to try the other system in that room to work out if your Heko Direkt sound bad there due to the room or the system
 
Elephantears said:
I don't think you understood me. As I understood it, you wanted to know why your speakers sounded great in one room/system and bad in the other. You'll never know until you've transplanted the basic elements of the system. I'm not saying you should get rid of your Chord stuff, but you need to try the other system in that room to work out if your Heko Direkt sound bad there due to the room or the system
Click to expand...

It's a very good point that I got, but my reply was not clear. I plan to bring the Shanling Valve Amps upstairs (into system B), for curiosity sake / to learn, but don't fancy un-cabling the rest of the system (because whatever happens I'm not moving the chord stuff, so I'm not going that far to learn right now - time constraint) The amps are heavy, but I could use the sport (LOL), and just need to pull out two RCA cables.
 
I'm not sure that any of the amps you mention really operate in Class A. Something like a Sugden, Marantz Pm4 or Musical Fidelity A1 would work better. Or even an amp based on the JLH 69 circuit or the 10W Pass amp.
 
pure sound said:
I'm not sure that any of the amps you mention really operate in Class A. Something like a Sugden, Marantz Pm4 or Musical Fidelity A1 would work better. Or even an amp based on the JLH 69 circuit or the 10W Pass amp.
Click to expand...

OK, so focus on Class A. Got it. I thought that the Meridian 205s were class A? I see that their circuit / schema diagrams (unlike Musical Fidelity) are made public, so if I could score some then a rebuild later would be an option. The form factor is appealing, as they are the same width as my Meridian Prime. ( 205 circuit diagram: https://www.meridian-audio.com/media/6866/205-mono-power-amplifier-circuit-diagram.pdf )

Otherwise I am see PrimaLuna old model Prologue 4 discounted to €650. The form factor is less appealing (full width not stackable) but I could find a way to accommodate. Stereophile in a review reckoned the integrated amp paired very will with the DeVore Orangutan 93, of which I am told the Heco's are a "poor man's version" somewhat. In the literature it doesn't state if these are class A though.

(205 circuit diagram: https://www.meridian-audio.com/media/6866/205-mono-power-amplifier-circuit-diagram.pdf )
 
Class A helps but it just has to be tidy rather than gritty sounding. That might perk up some speakers that need it but the Hecos definitely don't.
 
David, as pure sound suggests, you should look at a Sugden,perhaps the a21 line .
A fantastic amp,my mate had one for years with lowther speakers.
A winning combination.
 
matt j said:
The 205s definitely aren't class A, I had a pair a long time ago. Nothing special from memory.
Click to expand...
"Monophonic power amplifier which attained high-quality soundization by adopting a non switching class A stream" https://audio-database.com/MERIDIAN/amp/205-e.html
Plus another review that I cannot now find stating it was "non-switching" and a number of adverts 2nd hand stating class A (trust those less).
I thought this was why they had an early sound sense that turned then on and off : so that they woudn't get class A hot?
Shame, they weren't huge boxes :-(
But in any case you were pretty non-plussed and owned them.
 
Dossjohn said:
David, as pure sound suggests, you should look at a Sugden,perhaps the a21 line .
A fantastic amp,my mate had one for years with lowther speakers.
A winning combination.
Click to expand...
Sugden looks great, but I'm after a power amp only.
EDIT - > I see that Sugden used to make an A21a Power Amp
Just bought one from a well known auction site. <Gulp>
Fingers crossed.
 
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