Pace, rhythm and timing. What do these terms mean to you with respect to hifi?
- Thread starter Nic Robinson
- Start date
Paul L
coffee lounge for me
Thinking it about it more and slightly mischievously - when I’m turbo training at home I use a Sonos with gym type music streaming from it but before I set it all up again in the autumn I should prat test things as cadence is a key factor for me whilst spinning away the virtual miles. The micro adjusting of my pedalling on this I’ll suited noise box has been playing havoc with my souplesse 
Fretbuzz
pfm Member
I'm talking about the perception of components with 'PRaT' qualities, not any their actually timing abilities.
wylton
Naim and Mana member
Fair enough. I think it's lost in the midst of time who actually originated that term. I do think it's down to the note envelope though; if you can achieve a good attack at the front end of the note & then get the note to stop properly instead of droning on, then you're three parts there.
Pair any ampifier with high output impedance with a speaker that has minimal self damping and you have one reason for a possible lack of timing.
Read my reply a couple of posts further down.
Yes. You really haven't got a clue.
Here is another one, just for you;
Jitter. Luckily, these days it's not usually an issue anymore with advanced DAC's but not so long ago, it was.
I remember a certain Marantz KI 'signature' player I had some 25 years ago. It sounded 'warm and fluffy' but it was certainly not the last word in accuracy and timing, probably due to its 2000+ p/second measured Jitter. I changed this to a modified Pioneer/Trichord player and ...
Folks argue to this day whether or not we can recognise Jitter. Trust me, once you hear a lot of it ... you can.
Here is another one, just for you;
Jitter. Luckily, these days it's not usually an issue anymore with advanced DAC's but not so long ago, it was.
I remember a certain Marantz KI 'signature' player I had some 25 years ago. It sounded 'warm and fluffy' but it was certainly not the last word in accuracy and timing, probably due to its 2000+ p/second measured Jitter. I changed this to a modified Pioneer/Trichord player and ...
Folks argue to this day whether or not we can recognise Jitter. Trust me, once you hear a lot of it ... you can.
wylton
Naim and Mana member
It can't/won't obviously, but to go back to the analogy with playing a guitar, if you don't damp the strings at the correct time, then the then strings you have just played will continue to drone when you play another & that has a critical impact on the sound of the instrument. Similarly, when you reproduce music on your home stereo, it has to be able to start & stop correctly, else the sound will lack impact & the timing aspect will be muddled; it's so obvious that I am surprised that we need to have a debate about it!
I think this is perhaps missing point. If a person reasons in a rational scientific way and assigns conventional meanings to the words involved then obviously any competent or semi-competent amplifier will not be audibly changing the arrival time of different parts of the signal. People that believe in marketing like PRAT do not and cannot think in a rational scientific manner like this. And why should they if they don't want to given it is a hobby involving luxury goods?
Most seem to have faith in a brand or some aspect of audiophile belief and are looking for plausible (to them!) support for it. The key thing is that the faith comes first and the support after if it can be made to fit otherwise it is discarded or ignored. PRAT can provide this because it lacks meaning in itself but is associated with positive things onto which one can project for those that can think in this way. It is no different to many other things like brexit, homeopathy, climate change denial, populism, etc... which supporters associate with good things despite an absence of evidence.
Think you might struggle with that one since it's timing of packet arrival, not the music itself. That's not to say that the end result isn't the same.
Someone mentioned the 'perception of timing' so perhaps we are talking at cross purposes.
A component that I think has good rhythm and timing is definitely making it easier for my brain to comprehend the music, bringing the musicians together in better sync with one another. They certainly seem to be keeping better time but perhaps that is just my perception cos my mind better understands the music being played.
When all said and done, it's only the musical understanding that I'm really interested in obtaining.
david ellwood
Kirabosi Kognoscente
The age old issues surrounding attaching words to sound quality.
And people using those words to describe different things entirely based on diametrically opposing opinions and intentions.
James thinks NS1000 is a speaker that times rhythmically, where I’d deride the same speaker for a laughable inability in this area.
Others claim it’s a marketing ploy and speakers can’t affect the rhythm of music.
Everyone brings their own agenda and tries to win an unwinnable argument.
And people using those words to describe different things entirely based on diametrically opposing opinions and intentions.
James thinks NS1000 is a speaker that times rhythmically, where I’d deride the same speaker for a laughable inability in this area.
Others claim it’s a marketing ploy and speakers can’t affect the rhythm of music.
Everyone brings their own agenda and tries to win an unwinnable argument.
PRaT is the marketing term, but really it boils down to one key thing IMHO: minimisation of speaker driver overhang.
How fast speakers can start and stop is fundamental to preserving things like “pace” and “rhythm”, which I guess are both just “timing” factors anyway…